Evidence of meeting #17 for Official Languages in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was languages.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Théberge  Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

The Chair Liberal Yvan Baker

This meeting is called to order.

Welcome to meeting number 17 of the Standing Committee on Official Languages. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(f) and the motion adopted on October 23, 2025, we are meeting today to complete our study on the use of French in government communications and federal institutions.

I would now like to welcome our witnesses.

From the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages, we have Raymond Théberge, Commissioner of Official Languages; Patrick Wolfe, assistant commissioner, compliance and enforcement; Pierre Leduc, assistant commissioner, strategic orientation and external relations branch; and Mathew Croitoru, senior counsel.

The Commissioner will have five minutes for his opening remarks. We will then proceed to a question and answer period with committee members.

Mr. Théberge, you have the floor for five minutes.

Raymond Théberge Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Hello, honourable committee members.

I wish to acknowledge that we are meeting on the traditional, unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people, an indigenous people from the Ottawa valley.

Your study on the use of French in government communications and federal institutions is very important and I want to thank you for it. During my mandate, you have often heard me say that bilingualism is an essential skill for all leaders, whether in politics, in the federal public service or even in the private sector.

I know that the Official Languages Act imposes requirements on federal institutions, but not on individuals. It is those institutions that are responsible for ensuring that their official communications, including speeches by the Prime Minister, are available in both official languages. While the act does not impose any personal requirement on the Prime Minister, it is nonetheless desirable for him to embody that symbol of Canadian identity and linguistic equality in his daily work.

When it comes to federal institutions, the promotion of both official languages starts at the top. In other words, senior managers must lead by example through their actions. When they actively use both official languages, they encourage others to follow suit and contribute to the creation of an organizational culture that values French as much as English.

It's clear that much work remains to be done to create a truly bilingual public service. During the last fiscal year, 255 admissible complaints related to the language of work were filed with my office, and I believe this is just the tip of the iceberg. Many public servants are still reluctant to file a complaint when their language rights are infringed upon for fear of damaging their work relationships.

Of course, I was pleased to see the amendments to the act that came into force on June 20, which confirmed the right of federal public servants to work in the official language of their choice in regions designated as bilingual for language of work purposes, regardless of the linguistic identification of their position.

The Treasury Board Secretariat has also enhanced the linguistic requirements of bilingual supervisory positions in regions designated bilingual for language of work. I am nonetheless concerned about what could happen to individuals supervised by incumbents in unilingual positions or by those who do not meet the linguistic requirements at the CBC level. Federal institutions will have to ensure that measures are taken and maintained to protect the linguistic rights of the employees in question.

Too often, I also notice that French is neglected in government communications and that federal institutions relegate French to a translated language instead of striving for real equality of the official languages. The 766 eligible complaints filed with the Office of the Commissioner in 2024–2025 pertained to shortcomings in communications with the public, and the delivery of services reflects that. The new act is nonetheless very clear: given the precarious position of the French language in Canada, more must be done to protect it. I therefore expect, even at a time of budget cuts, that the leaders and senior officials of institutions send a clear message that French and English both play an important and equal role in the federal public service.

In closing, I'd like to briefly discuss the proposed administrative monetary penalties regulations that were recently tabled in Parliament. My team and I have conducted an in-depth analysis in order to fully understand the potential impact of the regulations on Canadians, members of the official-language minority communities and my office's operations.

As you may have read in our position paper, which was sent to you last week, I am pleased to see that many of the elements we recommended have been included in the proposed regulations. However, I'm concerned about some of the elements that have been put forward. For example, before being able to impose an administrative monetary penalty, my office will have to follow what seems to be a very time-consuming process, particularly because of the addition of several criteria to be considered and the obligation to justify the reasoning and methodology for each criterion.

Expectations are high for the modernized federal language policy and it's essential that the government make every effort to meet them. I therefore invite the government to take into account the considerations I've outlined in my document so that the regulations have the potential to fully meet the objectives of the modernized act.

I hope that my successor will have the opportunity to discuss this further with you during your in-depth study of the proposed regulations. The same also goes for the proposed regulations for part VII of the act tabled earlier this week, which deal with the advancement of equality of status and use of English and French. My team and I will analyze them in more detail in the coming days.

Thank you for your attention. I am now ready to answer your questions in the official language of your choice.

The Chair Liberal Yvan Baker

Thank you very much, Mr. Théberge.

We will now begin our first round of questions.

Mr. Godin, you have the floor for six minutes.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Commissioner, first of all, I must say that I'm very happy to see you here again. I will take this opportunity to wish you a very happy retirement if your acting position is not extended. It has been a pleasure working with you.

This morning, we are not necessarily here to discuss the regulations on administrative monetary penalties. We are here to talk about what happened this fall following a Radio-Canada article that noted that the Prime Minister does not speak French very often. Beyond the quantitative aspect, there is the qualitative aspect.

Commissioner, before your term ends, I would like you to tell us what you would have done after that article was published if you had been the President of Treasury Board and the Minister of Canadian Heritage.

I mention those two positions because, as you know, there was some confusion. Unfortunately, we were unable to create a central agency under Bill C‑13, which was enacted in June 2023. If you suddenly had the powers of Treasury Board and Canadian Heritage, what would you do?

Also, do you find the way the Prime Minister is playing games with the French language acceptable?

11:10 a.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Raymond Théberge

Giving powers right now is a bit dangerous.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Let us pretend.

11:10 a.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Raymond Théberge

I know.

As I mentioned in my opening remarks, it is extremely important for any leader, whether the Prime Minister, a minister or a senior leader, to be able to communicate in both official languages fairly and equally. When we send a message in both official languages, we reach more than 98% of Canadians.

As I also mentioned, the Official Languages Act does not apply to individuals. It is nonetheless extremely important for the institutions that support individuals to be aware of their obligations.

Let me give you an example. In 2020, I think everyone has forgotten that there was a pandemic. Some of the communications from the government were in one language only. We contacted the institutions responsible for those communications and corrected the situation. They have an extremely important role, which is to support individuals and ensure that their obligations are met.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Commissioner, you know that our time is very limited, so let me ask you a very simple question.

Do you agree with the way the current Prime Minister has been using the French language since the Radio-Canada article was published?

11:10 a.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Raymond Théberge

I think the Prime Minister is communicating more and more in French—

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

I'll stop you there.

He is “communicating more and more”. That is quantitative. However, Ms. Tellier, a professor at the University of Ottawa, did an analysis of his speech after the Radio-Canada article came out, noting that he spoke French about 17% of the time. He has increased that percentage. Do you know what he spoke about when he was speaking French? He was talking about things that are not as important. That's what Ms. Tellier came here to tell us. It was where you are sitting right now. So that's the quantitative aspect, but there's also the qualitative aspect.

How can we make the Prime Minister listen to reason so that he uses French fairly? I like your word “equitable”. “Equitable” does not mean “equal”. “Equitable” means “at parity”. What can we do to ensure that the Prime Minister respects the language and sets an example? As you said, it is not up to individuals to do so, but rather to the institutions. In my opinion, the position of Prime Minister, like that of Governor General, is an institution. It's a symbol. There is an individual who wears the mantle, and the mantle, in my opinion, is an institution.

What can we do to make the Prime Minister listen to reason and stop showing disregard for French?

11:15 a.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Raymond Théberge

I want to go back to what I was saying earlier. It is extremely important for the Prime Minister, like any senior official or representative of the Government of Canada, to be able to speak in both official languages in order to be heard by all Canadians.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

I'll stop you there, Commissioner.

In your opinion, is he doing his job well? Does he live up to what you just said?

11:15 a.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Raymond Théberge

He has been making efforts over the past few months. I think the people around him need to make sure that he communicates better with Canadians in both official languages.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

You also know that a minister held a press conference in English. Another minister sent out a press release in French that was full of errors. Do you find that normal and acceptable? Besides the Prime Minister, there is also the Governor General, who doesn't speak French. The Prime Minister comes after her in the hierarchy. He doesn't use or promote French.

Is this an organizational problem? If those at the top of the pyramid don't lead by example, it can't spread elsewhere in the government.

11:15 a.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Raymond Théberge

One of the difficulties that have always been noted within the federal government is that there isn't necessarily the political will needed to fully implement bilingualism in federal institutions. This isn't new, by the way; this has been the case for many years.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

I'm talking about the last 10 years.

11:15 a.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Raymond Théberge

We got there at almost the same time.

The Chair Liberal Yvan Baker

I'm sorry, your time is up, Mr. Godin. Thank you.

I now give the floor to Ms. Chenette for six minutes.

Madeleine Chenette Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Commissioner and your entire team, for being here with us. I would like to start by thanking you for all your years of service. We're privileged to welcome you at the 11th hour to get your feedback on the situation.

I'll start with a very short question: Are members and ministers, including the Prime Minister, required to be bilingual?

11:15 a.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Raymond Théberge

According to the act, no.

Madeleine Chenette Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

Okay. That's the important thing to remember.

It's a social norm that aims to ensure bilingualism and the ability to communicate in both languages, and that also seeks to strengthen the Official Languages Act. I haven't been here for 10 years. However, I've spent at least 35 years in leadership roles across Canada. I've held positions in the private sector, as a diplomat and most recently as a politician. What I've noticed over the years is a logic of constraint in the private sector. I'm a proud francophone and Quebecker. Thirty-five years ago, it was quite rare to work in the rest of Canada and see someone who spoke French. Today, there are many such people in the private sector.

I want to come back to what you said. This isn't exclusively a government issue; we have to promote our two official languages throughout our beautiful Canada. I have worked as an ambassador with various departments, and we learned from our experts that training is provided, that tests are carried out within the hierarchy to ensure proficiency in both languages before responsibilities are assigned.

From what you've observed, if we want to take that perspective further…. I'm thinking of the word “will”. Given what's happening with our friends to the south, which is historic, and the fact that we have to work from east to west and have better export capacity, we need to have the will to promote our two official languages. There's actually culture at stake. We have to ensure that people are proud to speak both languages or to speak French.

Apart from the punitive aspect, which is still the Commissioner's role, what do you think should be done to strengthen that culture and pride to promote our two languages?

11:15 a.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Raymond Théberge

My office has two mandates. It has a compliance mandate, which you're calling “punitive”. It also has a promotion mandate: We must promote duality, and we must also promote official languages within the federal government and among official language minority communities.

The purpose section of the amended act also talks about protecting and promoting French throughout the country, and practically in North America. That means that measures have to be taken in terms of implementing certain programs and certain policies to promote, for example, the learning of French and English in schools across the education continuum.

We also have to make sure that, when the government speaks out, it truly does so in both official languages and that French is truly a language of work within the federal government. It's a challenge because, as I said earlier, French is too often a language of translation. Nothing will change as long as we say that everything can be translated. Translation isn't the only way to respect official languages; people have to be able to use French in communications, in interactions with their colleagues within the federal government and with community members. That means it's important to ensure that French also has a visual presence; there has to be signage in French everywhere. People have to see and perceive that the French fact plays an extremely important role in Canada.

Madeleine Chenette Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

From that perspective, I'm sure that some of my colleagues will look at everything that can go wrong and what needs to be improved. I would like you to tell us what has improved and what levers need to be strengthened to reinforce the pride of sharing our two languages in this country.

11:20 a.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Raymond Théberge

I won't go into the history of the Official Languages Act over the past 50 years, but there has been some progress in the federal government. I'm thinking of the creation of bilingual positions, the delivery of services in both official languages, and so on. A lot of training was already being offered to public servants. Now, training is becoming an issue because of budget cuts. If we want to build this capacity within the government, we have to ensure that there is more language training and that people are able to function in their second official language at work.

I'll go back to what I was saying earlier. In the past, there used to be promotional campaigns on the importance of bilingualism; those are being done less and less. There was an amazing game called Oh! Canada. Thousands of copies were sold and distributed in the 1970s. That's the key to promotion, but it was led by the government, not by the office. The office of the commissioner has very modest resources for promotion.

It's important to build on what we have, but, above all, not go backwards. Too often, when there are budget cuts, decisions are made and budget cuts are applied to language training, which has an impact on official languages.

Madeleine Chenette Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

So—