Official Languages Committee on Oct. 9th, 2025

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Thank you very much, Ms. Asselin.

Thank you, Mr. Godin.

Mr. Deschênes‑Thériault, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Guillaume Deschênes-Thériault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First of all, I'd like to thank the witnesses for their testimony.

We all know that education in French is key to the vitality of francophone communities outside Quebec, across Canada.

Here's some data. In British Columbia, 44% of children who are entitled to education in French have never attended a French-language school during their education. In Saskatchewan, that figure is 40%, while in Canada outside Quebec, it's only 35%.

In your opinion, what factors would explain why, in British Columbia and Saskatchewan, the proportion of rights holders who actually attend a French-language school is lower?

Let's start with Mr. Dion. Ms. Asselin can also answer my question afterwards.

[Daniel Dion]

In Saskatchewan, one of the challenges is geographic distribution and the size of the communities.

There's also no denying that funding is needed to build a school. Talks can be long and arduous. This is a long-term project that requires a lot of effort and energy.

Fortunately, the last census helped us collect good data on the distribution of francophone communities in Saskatchewan. We hope that data will help us plan future steps.

[Guillaume Deschênes-Thériault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you.

Ms. Asselin, you have the floor.

[Marie-Andrée Asselin]

The geographic disparity of francophones on the territory definitely poses a challenge. There are a number of communities with francophones, but no francophone schools. These projects take many years to come to fruition.

Another factor is the lack of predictability in terms of the funding needed to build the schools. Schools are too small. There is a lack of child care spaces. Usually, our francophone day care centres are attached to francophone schools. If there are fewer day cares or no day cares in francophone schools, that prevents a large number of children from francizing before entering or after entering school.

If there is no space in a francophone day care, children sometimes go to an anglophone day care centre. Parents then often choose to send them to an English-language school. That is the path to assimilation that awaits these children.

[Guillaume Deschênes-Thériault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

In a minority situation, we know that schools play a dual role: fulfilling the educational mandate and supporting the cultural and linguistic vitality of the communities.

The federal government provides funding for minority-language education. The objective is to help the provinces and territories cover the additional costs.

With regard to your respective provincial governments, Saskatchewan and British Columbia, is this dual mandate of francophone schools taken into account in the allocation of resources?

Mr. Dion, you have the floor.

[Daniel Dion]

As far as I know, it is given very little consideration. At the provincial level, education is not considered an investment, but rather an expenditure.

In addition, expenditures are really intended for the educational offering, not for the aspect related to our school board's cultural and identity mandate.

[Guillaume Deschênes-Thériault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Dion.

Ms. Asselin, long legal battles have been fought in British Columbia. You've taken legal action against the provincial government. You won your case against the province in the Supreme Court in 2020.

Have you seen any changes on the ground since those conflicts?

[Marie-Andrée Asselin]

We've seen a bit of a shift.

There were announcements of land purchases or school construction after the Supreme Court of Canada ruling. However, the shift is very slow. Many communities are still in dire need, and the funding structure does not enable us to meet the needs.

As for the provincial government, a bit of funding comes from the Action Plan for Official Languages 2023-2028 to support French-language education.

It's important to acknowledge that, otherwise, all school funding structures, such as real estate funding structures, are administered equally. It's the same funding structure for francophones and anglophones. The specific needs of francophones are not recognized.

[Guillaume Deschênes-Thériault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you.

The federal government enters into education agreements with the provinces. To your knowledge, does the Government of British Columbia consult francophone organizations in the discussions to put these agreements in place?

I invite Ms. Asselin to answer the question first, followed by Mr. Dion.

[Marie-Andrée Asselin]

Yes, we've had discussions.

I can't speak on behalf of the school board, but there have been discussions between the provincial government and the school board. However, it takes a very long time, and the needs of francophone parents aren't being heard, or at least not enough for us to see changes that impact the lives of our francophone communities.

What we want as parents is to see a difference in our children's lives now. They're growing up fast, and we are in danger of being assimilated in British Columbia. So action really needs to be taken quickly to prevent an entire generation of francophones from being assimilated.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Deschênes‑Thériault.

I now give the floor to Mr. Beaulieu for six minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank our witnesses for joining us.

From Quebec's point of view, the timeline of the fight in British Columbia is quite incredible. For example, it wasn't until 1977 that the government of that province granted francophones the right to French-language education.

Ms. Asselin, what was the situation before 1977?

[Marie-Andrée Asselin]

That's a good question.

I wasn't in British Columbia at the time. What I know is that there was no francophone school board, so no school management, and that the core French program was administered by the anglophone school districts.

So it was really hard to get quality education for our children. It was also not available to all francophone communities in the province.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

In 1977, the Official Languages Act had already been passed seven years prior. Afterwards, you were forced to take legal action and take various steps, as my colleague already said earlier.

For example, according to the timeline in question, the first all-French public school opened its doors in Vancouver in 1983.

Can you tell us a bit more about that? If I understand correctly, that means there were no francophone public schools before that date.

[Marie-Andrée Asselin]

That's correct. It was a core French program. It wasn't even a school. There were a few classes within an English-language school, which were managed by the local anglophone school board. It wasn't really quality education.

I remember hearing people from the federation who were here before me say that they were the ones who wrote the curriculum with the teachers. They also designed the teaching material, as it was very difficult for the anglophone school districts to do so. They couldn't support their teachers. People from the francophone community got together to ensure a certain quality of education. It has nothing to do with what currently exists.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

In 1983, the federation filed its first lawsuit against the Government of British Columbia. After that, a set of legal proceedings ensued.

Clearly, the Government of British Columbia had no political will to ensure the future of francophone communities.

What did the process look like? Was it really very slow? Have you managed to get more schools as a result of legal proceedings? Has there been any progress?

[Marie-Andrée Asselin]

Had francophone parents not taken legal action through the Association des parents francophones de la Colombie-Britannique—the predecessor to the current federation—we certainly would not have obtained school management or the creation of our school board. There were two legal actions, one to create the school board and the other to obtain school management throughout British Columbia.

Those long legal battles were waged by parents. Although I wasn't at the federation back then, from what I've heard, the struggles were very difficult. At the time, the province wasn't really showing good will in terms of accommodating a francophone education system.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Prior to 1995, it was very difficult to follow the process, to see exactly what the funding situation was.

The Commission nationale des parents francophones at the time published a study titled “Où sont passés les milliards $?”. The study wondered where the billions of dollars had gone and established that, from 1970 to 1988, of the $5 billion that had been paid out by the federal government under the official languages support programs, 62% of the funds had been allocated to anglophones in Quebec and immersion schools in English Canada. That was at the very beginning, when francophone communities lacked funding and the assimilation rate was increasing.

What do you think of those facts?

[Marie-Andrée Asselin]

I was obviously not at the federation back then. I heard that it was very difficult to follow the way funding was granted to francophones.

The funds were administered by the anglophone school boards. There weren't a lot of accountability mechanisms in place. As a result, only crumbs were left for francophone communities. That was all that could be allocated to francophones, even though they were entitled to much more funding. Francophones were not necessarily getting that funding.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

That's quite surprising, since anglophone schools in Quebec were overfunded. When the official languages support programs were launched, a huge proportion of the funds was allocated to Quebec anglophones and immersion schools.

In 2020, you won. However, you seem to have a lot of trouble enforcing the ruling. We heard about that in June. Another ruling was also appealed.

What do you think of that resistance? Even today, in 2025, you still have to pursue legal remedies.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Ms. Asselin, you have only 20 seconds left. Please give a brief answer.

[Marie-Andrée Asselin]

The federation finds it terrible that, in 2025, we still have to fight to assert our rights.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Did I misunderstand, Mr. Beaulieu? Was the question addressed to someone else?

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Another witness can answer the question, or I can wait until my next turn to speak.