Official Languages Committee on Oct. 9th, 2025

[Giovanna Mingarelli, Liberal, Prescott—Russell—Cumberland, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Dion, the education continuum from early childhood to post-secondary education depends on competent and committed teachers.

How do you work with teacher training institutions to reinforce the continuum?

[Daniel Dion]

In Saskatchewan, the only training program for francophone teachers is at the University of Regina, which offers a bachelor of education in French. I'm a graduate of that program. In addition, a teacher from my school board currently has a job training these teachers. It's a great teacher training program.

It's important to understand that teaching in minority language communities is a specialization in itself. It's not easy. It has its own intricacies that are not found anywhere else. We see that when we bring in teachers from a majority language community. We work on these programs and support them as best we can so that the next generation of teachers can return to our communities, because we need them.

[Giovanna Mingarelli, Liberal, Prescott—Russell—Cumberland, ON]

Thank you.

The committee often hears about the difficulty of recruiting and retaining teachers in minority francophone schools.

How does that play out in Saskatchewan?

[Daniel Dion]

In Saskatchewan, that challenge is mostly in rural schools. For example, a rural school may have 50 or 60 students and four or five teachers. You can imagine how hard it is to find a teacher from the community. Someone may really want to invest in the community, but most people from outside have no interest in living in a small rural place. The big challenge is to find people in the community who want to get a teaching degree and then come back to live in the community.

It can be hard for teachers to stay in these communities where the main economy is agriculture. Someone from Ontario might want to start a career in education, but their spouse would have to want to start a career in agriculture, for example. Otherwise, it really wouldn't work. It's very difficult to bring people in from other places.

In addition, in these small communities, it often happens that a position opens up and no one applies. No one wants to go there, because it's far from all the services offered by a big city, such as health care services, stores and so on. Many schools have unfilled positions. The other teachers then have to compensate by agreeing to work more hours and take on more tasks, and so on.

[Giovanna Mingarelli, Liberal, Prescott—Russell—Cumberland, ON]

Thank you.

Now I'd like to turn to Mr. Desgagné and Mr. Krajewski.

Your organization also works on workplace skills development.

Can you give us some examples of successful partnerships with the provinces or with the private sector?

[Geoffroy Krajewski]

Yes.

I don't know if you want to answer, Mr. Desgagné.

[Denis Desgagné]

Working directly with the provinces is very complicated. It must be said that, despite repeated requests, RESDAC was never consulted about funding transfers, for example. However, RESDAC, which has been seriously dormant, if not in a coma, for five years, has just been revived. It is putting tools and platforms in place, in partnership with international companies from Europe and Australia, to help francophone and Acadian people develop their required skills and define and recognize those skills in order to properly compete on the labour market.

We have a number of partnerships, including with the Fédération des chambres de commerce du Québec and with university research organizations, to match francophones or anglophones with employers.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

I'm sorry, but the time is up.

[Giovanna Mingarelli, Liberal, Prescott—Russell—Cumberland, ON]

I'm done. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Thank you, Ms. Mingarelli.

Colleagues, as you know, we very much appreciate the testimony of the witnesses, and we want to hear what they have to say. We had technical problems with Mr. Leclerc's sound, but during the meeting, our officials worked hard to try to correct the problem. If I may, I will suspend the meeting for a minute, just to test the sound so that we can contact him.

I'm suspending the meeting.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

We are resuming the meeting.

We are at questions from members.

Mr. Gill, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Dalwinder Gill, Conservative, Calgary McKnight, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have questions for Mr. Dion.

Currently, about 4% of immigrants going to western provinces are French speakers, but the Prime Minister has promised to increase that number to 12% by 2029.

How are the education systems in provinces like Alberta and Saskatchewan preparing to adapt to this potential rise in French-speaking newcomers? Have provincial school boards begun planning for an increase in demand for French-language programs, teachers and early childhood education spaces?

[Daniel Dion]

The student population in francophone schools is already on the rise as a result of immigration. There have been many students from other countries who fall under the authority of our board for more than 10 or 15 years. A portion of this influx of migrants will definitely settle in Saskatchewan, and the francophone student population under our board will increase as a result of immigration. However, there is no denying that, if these eligible children settle in a community that isn't served by a francophone school, we won't be able to reach them.

We also have to keep in mind that many of these newcomers will choose to send their children to an English school for fear that their children won't adapt to the majority language because of a lack of education.

Lastly, we have to be careful in interpreting this data, because if the proportion of francophone migrants increases to 12% in the province as a whole, we won't necessarily see it, because our school board doesn't cover the entire province.

[Dalwinder Gill, Conservative, Calgary McKnight, AB]

I have another question for you.

Do you believe there is enough collaboration among the federal government, provincial governments and community organizations to ensure that French-speaking families can integrate successfully into local education systems? What specifics would you like to see from the federal government to help western provinces meet the 12% francophone immigration target while maintaining high-quality French-language education?

[Daniel Dion]

More collaboration between all levels of government can always benefit the relationships between all organizations that work towards minority language rights. Let's not forget that collaboration is one thing, but clear and sustainable financing of such programs is really important.

I think it's important that we keep collaborating, and then we collaborate even more. We have organizations that seem to work in silos, and we need to make sure not only that information is passed between organizations, but also that organizations listen to each other. I think that's really important.

Consultation is all well and good, but we have to listen to what we are told and follow up on those consultations. It's very important.

[Dalwinder Gill, Conservative, Calgary McKnight, AB]

My next question is for Mr. Desgagné.

I believe you last appeared before this committee in February 2024. Since then, what kinds of developments have taken place with regard to your organization's relationship with the federal government? Has federal support for literacy and skills development among francophone communities improved, stayed the same or declined over the past year and a half?

[Denis Desgagné]

Since our last appearance before the committee, nothing has changed, despite RESDAC's enthusiasm for playing an active role in skills development, whether formal, non-formal or informal. It's the status quo. It's a step backward, as I see it.

[Dalwinder Gill, Conservative, Calgary McKnight, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Thank you, Mr. Gill.

I now give the floor to Ms. Chenette for five minutes.

[Madeleine Chenette, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to start with Mr. Dion and Ms. Asselin.

You explained the challenge that immersion schools face compared to francophone schools. Since the beginning of the meeting, you've also talked about the challenge that francophone communities face in accessing French-language schools.

The idea of mixed schools would undoubtedly imply a change within school boards, where the majority currently prevails. If we changed things up or found a way to improve the governance of school boards, there could be mixed schools.

In other words, there would be a francophone infrastructure and an anglophone infrastructure in the same school. The francophone clientele would have access to a francophone program and to the services you were talking about.

Would that be a worthwhile option to consider?

What would be the challenges to achieving this? What leverage should be put in place to do that?

[Daniel Dion]

Providing a mixed service within a single institution presents challenges. You have to understand that, in a minority setting, the majority language prevails. In an institution that offers both services, the majority language would prevail, and it would set the tone for the students' school environment. It is therefore very hard to provide quality service in French as a first language in a mixed environment.

However, compromises could be made. My experience is proof of that. The immersion school in my village had a gymnasium built for the francophone community with funding from Canadian Heritage. When I became a student at the francophone school, my access to the gymnasium was restricted because I wasn't part of the majority school board.

There was obviously a legal challenge, and we won. I was able to access the gym. Afterwards, a French school was built in my village. Both schools had access to the gymnasium and science lab. The buildings were separate, but we were allowed access to some parts of the infrastructure.

[Madeleine Chenette, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Ms. Asselin, what do you think?

[Marie-Andrée Asselin]

In our opinion, spaces should not be shared, although it may seem like a good idea from a structural and funding standpoint.

First, the needs of the two clienteles are completely different. I agree with Mr. Dion that francophone children are anglicized when we put them in immersion classes. English is definitely going to dominate. It is already hard to ensure that our children speak French, even in our francophone communities and schools, and even in school corridors and on the playground.

If we let a bunch of children share a schoolyard where English is overwhelmingly spoken, it will definitely be even harder to have a francophone environment in our schools.

We also want to create a sense of belonging and connection to the francophone community in schools. It would be harder to create that connection if they were mixed.

In British Columbia, there are still mixed schools. Some francophone high schools are in anglophone schools, and we have found that the spaces are shared very unequally. Francophones often lose out in terms of access to the gym, access to the library, and so on. It's really hard to share spaces. I don't think that would be advisable.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

There are about 30 seconds left, Ms. Chenette.

[Madeleine Chenette, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Okay.

Mr. Krajewski, you talked about the influence of learning in a formal or informal context.

What does it mean to you to work on provincial and federal relations? What is the federal government's role in emphasizing this aspect?