Evidence of meeting #6 for Official Languages in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was institutions.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

St-Onge  Chief Executive Officer, Association francophone à l'éducation des services à l'enfance de l'Ontario
Romaric Sessua Kuengou  Chair, Commission scolaire francophone du Nunavut
Martin  Vice-Chair, Commission scolaire francophone du Nunavut
Normand  President and Chief Executive Officer, Association des collèges et universités de la francophonie canadienne
Côté  Deputy Director, Office of Francophone and Francophile Affairs, and Senior Lecturer, Faculty of Education, Simon Fraser University
Rousseau  Program Manager, Early Childhood Education, Association des collèges et universités de la francophonie canadienne

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yvan Baker

Welcome to meeting number six of the Standing Committee on Official Languages.

Before we begin, I'd like to make some general comments.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. All comments should be addressed through the chair.

I would ask committee members to raise their hands if they wish to speak, whether they're here in person or joining us on Zoom. The committee clerk and I will manage the speaking order as best we can.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(f) and the motion adopted by the committee on September 25, 2025, we are meeting today to resume our study on the minority-language education continuum.

I'd now like to welcome our panel.

Joining us today are Martine St‑Onge, chief executive officer, and Annie Brooks, operations director of the Association francophone à l'éducation des services à l'enfance de l'Ontario. Both are joining us by video conference.

Joining us in person, we also have Judy Romaric Sessua Kuengou, chair, and Zoya Martin, vice-chair of the Commission scolaire francophone du Nunavut.

Thank you for being with us today.

Each organization will have five minutes for their opening statement, after which we will move on to the question and answer portion of the meeting.

Ms. St‑Onge, you have the floor for five minutes.

Martine St-Onge Chief Executive Officer, Association francophone à l'éducation des services à l'enfance de l'Ontario

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, dear members, on behalf of the Association francophone à l'éducation des services à l'enfance de l'Ontario, known as AFESEO, thank you for inviting us to contribute to the study on the minority-language education continuum.

Founded in 1993, AFESEO is a provincial organization mandated to be the voice of francophone early childhood education in Ontario. With its network of 350 French-language educational points of service, representing 36,000 licensed spaces, and its management of 25 educational laboratory centres across the province, AFESEO has a unique perspective on the context in which French-language early childhood education is evolving.

Before diving into the heart of the matter, allow me to clarify some of the terms I will be using. Since we're talking about education, we will use the terms “early childhood education services” or “early childhood education centre” instead of the term “day care”. We will also use the term “educational staff”, as it is inclusive, gender-neutral and independent of the educational background of individuals working in early childhood education. In Ontario, the term “early childhood educator” is a title reserved for staff registered with the College of Early Childhood Educators.

Let's dive right into the heart of the matter. Did you know that only 27% of eligible children 4 years and under have access to a space in an educational centre? This situation contributes to the assimilation of children of rights holders, excluding families whose only spoken official language is French, in other words, French speakers. These families make up a significant percentage of our francophone families, given the high number of families who are recent immigrants. The number of francophone spaces needed is even greater than the 22,000 spaces for eligible children.

Among the challenges related to the quality of early childhood education services is the issue of the funding structure for French-language education services. In Ontario, funding for the Canada-wide early learning and child care system flows through municipalities. Francophone early childhood education services are not considered official language minority services. As a result, accountability and data collection related to funding and the creation of francophone spaces are very difficult to achieve.

In Ontario, child care providers can decide whether to advertise their services as being francophone or bilingual. There is no designation system for francophone providers. What we know as bilingual spaces are actually spaces of assimilation.

Then there's the fact that municipalities that aren't officially francophone designated are not required to provide services in French to francophone providers. This puts the providers who struggle to or simply cannot understand or speak English at a disadvantage, especially in a context of ever-increasing red tape.

Municipal priorities for the creation of spaces do not always meet the needs of francophones, particularly in rural or remote areas. On the other hand, in Ontario, organizations such as AFESEO receive funding from the federal government's official languages road map. This funding, which flows through national organizations and the provincial government, is vital and enables professionalization by and for the early childhood sector. The early childhood sector's ability to be autonomous and to structure itself may be compromised if this funding isn't renewed in future road maps.

The shortage of child care workers is another challenge. In Ontario, the occupancy rate for francophone child care providers is 61%. One reason for this is that existing licensed spaces can't be filled due to a lack of workers to provide the service. Ontario is the only place in North America where the early childhood educator profession is regulated by a college, which is a good thing in itself. However, the college makes foreign and even interprovincial credential recognition impossible. This increases the time required for educators to register with the college, as they must obtain a degree from an Ontario college, which complicates recruitment.

Furthermore, funding doesn't reflect the existence of a college or the salaries offered in similar conditions by other systems, such as school boards. Retention is very difficult because salaries aren't competitive. Staff turnover due to working conditions is very high, which generates significant costs for the entire system. A workforce trained to operate within the sector's legal framework is necessary, not only to provide the service, but also to offer quality service to children whose parents have decided to enrol them in a French-language early childhood education program.

How can we retain this workforce? Here are some ideas to consider. We could set up structured, recurring funding that reflects official language minority status and offer improved working conditions for early childhood education workers.

Thank you.

The Chair Liberal Yvan Baker

Thank you, Ms. St‑Onge.

Mr. Sessua Kuengou, you have the floor for five minutes.

Judy Romaric Sessua Kuengou Chair, Commission scolaire francophone du Nunavut

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Honourable members of the committee, on behalf of the Commission scolaire francophone du Nunavut, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today.

Ms. Martin and I are here representing the Commission scolaire francophone du Nunavut, or CSFN, and we come to you with both pride in our achievements and deep concern about the systemic barriers we face in fulfilling our mandate under section 23 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Let me begin with a significant milestone. In September 2024, we opened the first French-language high school in Nunavut. This was not simply a ribbon-cutting ceremony. This achievement was the result of a legal battle with the Government of Nunavut to ensure that it fulfilled its constitutional obligations under section 23 of the charter. Twenty-four years after our school board's creation, our students can finally complete their education in French without leaving the territory of Nunavut.

However, this victory highlights a troubling reality: Having to work through the territorial government adds significant delays and complications in accessing funding. This brings me to an important question for this committee and for the Government of Canada: What checks and balances are in place to ensure that provincial and territorial governments' acts, regulations and laws allow for section 23 to be fully implemented in their jurisdictions? When constitutional rights hinge on the co-operation of provincial and territorial governments, who ensures those rights are protected?

Nunavut presents unique challenges. We arguably have up to three minority languages: Inuinnaqtun, Inuktitut and French. The cost to deliver education in Nunavut's remote communities is considerably higher than anywhere else in Canada. This reality leaves the CSFN in a position where we are chronically underfunded to meet the needs of our students.

Let me give you concrete examples of what underfunding means. In 2024, we filled our first art and music teacher position. Twenty-four years after our school board's creation, our students are finally getting access to arts education that students in southern Canada take for granted. We are constantly forced to pick and choose which services to provide our students, making impossible decisions about what constitutes essential programming.

Infrastructure and housing present significant barriers. In the north, housing is not a perk; it is a necessity. Without subsidized housing, we would have virtually no teachers or support staff in our school. Vacancy rates for rentals are near zero, and housing costs are prohibitive. We're already planning ahead, knowing we will need additional housing for teachers and staff as we continue to grow. This isn't just about recruitment; it's about fostering loyalty in the hopes of providing better quality education in our environment.

As already mentioned, our recent expansion in September 2024 included a new high school wing that includes a gymnasium. We're already planning our next proposed expansion because we are approaching capacity. Statistically, we're reaching only 50% of the rights holders in Iqaluit who could be enrolling their children in our school. We should be celebrating this rising enrolment, but instead, we worry about our inability to accommodate growth.

I want to acknowledge our important partnership with Les petits Nanooks child care centre, which is located next to our school. There were renovations at the same time that the school extension was being built. This investment in early childhood education is wonderful and essential for the French-language education continuum, and we're grateful for the support. However, we got 50 new spaces, which isn't enough to meet our community's needs in Iqaluit. And we're not even talking about the needs of other communities.

The broader picture remains challenging. Many programs being offered under the terms of federal agreements with the Government of Nunavut don't provide enough funding and aren't always inclusive of regionally specific programming.

Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today to share our history, our concerns and our successes.

The Chair Liberal Yvan Baker

Thank you, Mr. Sessua.

Let's move on to questions from members.

Mr. Godin, you have the floor for six minutes.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses appearing by video conference on behalf of the Association francophone à l'éducation des services à l'enfance de l'Ontario, as well as those appearing in person on behalf of the Commission scolaire francophone du Nunavut, for taking part in our study.

I thank them for helping us help them.

My first question is for AFESEO.

Ms. St‑Onge, you mentioned that there are currently 25 centres to meet the demand and that only 27% of rights holders can access them. You also mentioned that there are 22,000 rights holders.

How can you help us find ways to secure access for all rights holders?

The fact is that the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedom states that rights holders have a right to education in the language of their choice.

Can you help us, Ms. St‑Onge?

11:10 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Association francophone à l'éducation des services à l'enfance de l'Ontario

Martine St-Onge

Thank you.

We can certainly help you. The system's complex, but the fact remains that, without access to francophone spaces, access to French-language education is compromised. So our educational centres are like the front door. Access is compromised if we don't have space for all rights holders.

As I've said, the workforce is a major challenge. There are 350 points of service, but they meet the needs of only 26% of rights holders, which doesn't even include French speakers, who are the next generation of francophones, after all. They make our communities sustainable.

We really need to find ways to retain labour. Over the last few years across Ontario, thousands of registered early childhood educators have left the profession. We'd be able to make greater strides if we could solve that issue.

Creating spaces is another challenge, and sustained funding is required. For francophones, the first step is to create a community and a hub of services in schools for families who are relocating. The fact is that French-language services aren't available on every street corner, as they are often offered in the regions. So when parents decide to enrol their kids in a French-language centre, they're making a long-term commitment. The same goes for educational staff. The decision to work in this sector is a big one, because most of the workforce speaks both languages.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Thank you, Ms. St‑Onge.

You also explained that, in Ontario, municipalities are responsible for these services, and those that aren't designated as francophone or bilingual aren't required to offer them in French.

Is that for real?

11:15 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Association francophone à l'éducation des services à l'enfance de l'Ontario

Martine St-Onge

That is absolutely the case.

We just finished a provincial tour of our 350 members—

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Forgive me, Ms. St‑Onge, but my speaking time is very limited.

You're telling me this is a real thing.

11:15 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Association francophone à l'éducation des services à l'enfance de l'Ontario

Martine St-Onge

It is absolutely real.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Does the Liberals' Official Languages Act of June 2023 address these concerns?

11:15 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Association francophone à l'éducation des services à l'enfance de l'Ontario

Martine St-Onge

I don't have those details, but municipalities are required to offer those services under the law, unless they don't have the designation, in which case the requirement doesn't apply to them.

Therefore, it is essential that they have a legal responsibility to be able to support early childhood centres. However, this is not currently the case.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Thank you, Ms. St‑Onge.

I'm speaking to the witnesses from Nunavut now.

First, I want to congratulate you on establishing the first francophone high school in Nunavut. Well done! I know you're doing a lot with very little, so I congratulate you and your team.

When it comes to compliance with laws, obligations and regulations, do you have the tools to enforce compliance?

Does the Official Languages Act passed by the Liberals in June 2023 address your concerns?

11:15 a.m.

Chair, Commission scolaire francophone du Nunavut

Judy Romaric Sessua Kuengou

No, we don't have any tools. We'd like to be at the consultation table as a stakeholder, but the only people we talk to are local government officials, such as the Department of Education.

We have no choice; we have to do what they tell us to do. We're not privy to any discussions with the federal government.

The Official Languages Act would better serve our needs if we were in a densely populated area like Ontario, where other organizations offer services in French.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

The law requires the federal government to consult with school boards, so I would encourage you to know your rights.

What percentage of French-speaking eligible students in Nunavut currently attend French-language schools?

11:15 a.m.

Chair, Commission scolaire francophone du Nunavut

Judy Romaric Sessua Kuengou

In Iqaluit it's 50%, but elsewhere it's 0%.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

What is the territorial average?

11:15 a.m.

Chair, Commission scolaire francophone du Nunavut

Judy Romaric Sessua Kuengou

Across Nunavut, we're talking around 20%.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

That's tragic.

11:15 a.m.

Chair, Commission scolaire francophone du Nunavut

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Thank you, Mr. Sessua.

The Chair Liberal Yvan Baker

Thank you, Mr. Godin.

Ms. Chenette, you have the floor for six minutes.

Madeleine Chenette Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for helping us better understand the situation.

I'd like to start with the representatives of AFESEO.

I understand that there's an issue with funding and with municipalities acknowledging the issue. There's also the availability of human resources, meaning people with the skills to work in early childhood centres.

When it comes to municipalities, what kind of regulatory changes would be needed to get them involved?

In your opinion, what would be the minimum French-speaking population threshold for the Government of Canada to recognize this aspect of official languages?

11:20 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Association francophone à l'éducation des services à l'enfance de l'Ontario

Martine St-Onge

There would need to be staff capable of interacting in French with French-language early childhood education centres. Legally, municipalities are under no obligation to offer this service if they don't have francophone status. Indeed, the relationship between these educational centres and municipalities is governed by education laws, not French-language service laws.

In the case of municipalities that aren't designated as francophone, there are no staff members capable of communicating in French with educational centres. We're not talking about having someone who can say, “Hello, I'll transfer your call”, but having the ability to support educational centres. The system makes reporting on finances and data management quite complex.

It should be noted that each municipality applies the law by creating its own guidelines, so when an educational centre receives templates in English only from a municipality and asks for support, the response it receives depends on the municipality, as there are many different ways of doing things. There is no consistency.

Each municipality decides on its level of French-language capacity. Some municipalities are completely unable to support our educational centres in understanding, for example, the requirements related to financial reporting or data management. The support tools aren't translated. We're no longer talking about adapting the tools, but simply translating them. Translations aren't available province-wide.

These areas are so technical and complex that, without tools and support in French, errors can creep in and penalize us, so all of this has a major impact on our sector.

There is a real need in this regard. The sector has been clamouring for a solution. We need support in French from municipalities. This is a priority.