Official Languages Committee on Nov. 6th, 2025

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

I call this meeting to order.

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to meeting number 9 of the Standing Committee on Official Languages.

I have a few words to say before we begin our meeting. Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. All comments should be addressed through the chair. Members in the room and on Zoom, please raise your hand if you wish to speak. The committee clerk and I will manage the speaking order as best we can.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(f) and the motion adopted by the committee on September 25, the committee is meeting today to continue its study on the minority-language education continuum.

I would now like to welcome the witnesses for the first hour of the meeting. From the Canadian Association of Second Language Teachers, we have Francis Potié, executive director, and Solomiya Ostapyk, communications and languages engagement coordinator. From the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique, we have Dr. Marie‑Nicole Dubois, president. Each organization will have five minutes for their opening remarks. We will then proceed to a period of questions and answers with the committee members.

Mr. Potié, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Francis Potié, Executive Director, Canadian Association of Second Language Teachers]

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and members of the committee. Thank you for inviting me to testify today.

My name is Francis Potié. I'm executive director of the Canadian Association of Second Language Teachers, or CASLT.

The CASLT is a Canada-wide association that brings together teachers of additional languages and professionals working in this field. Our vision is excellence in language instruction. Our mandate is to advance the teaching of additional languages in Canada. We support our members by creating training opportunities, publishing resources, undertaking and disseminating research, and promoting the sharing of ideas and information. The vast majority of our members work as teachers of the official languages, either English or French.

In 2022-23, more than 1.7 million, or 45% of students outside Quebec, were enrolled in French as a second language programs. In Quebec, all students take a second language course. French is taught in English-language schools and English in French-language schools.

In total, nearly three million students across the country are learning the language of their province's or territory's linguistic minority. These young people represent a significant pool of students for colleges and universities in official language minority communities. They need access to various post-secondary pathways to further their linguistic and professional development.

This pool also helps develop new bilingual speakers and increase the number of professionals able to serve the communities, such as teachers, psychologists, speech-language pathologists and others.

However, the teacher shortage remains a major barrier to language instruction in Canada. A study conducted by the Association canadienne des professionnels de l'immersion in collaboration with the CASLT estimates that there is a shortage of 8,000 to 9,400 teachers of French as a second language, including 7,000 to 8,000 core French teachers.

The CASLT fully supports long-term federal investment in the recruitment and retention of French teachers.

To better understand these challenges, CASLT launched a pan-Canadian research project on training FSL teachers in 2020. This project aimed to identify strengths, gaps and opportunities for improvement in the preparation and support of new teachers. The results highlight three priorities: language development and ongoing language support, pedagogical skills and mentorship. The research also reveals that more than half of beginning teachers were considering leaving the profession—a clear warning sign in the current context. However, the report also highlights sources of hope, local initiatives that focus on collaboration, informal mentorship and the active use of French in schools. This project demonstrates that strengthening the training and support of FSL teachers strengthens the entire language teaching system in Canada.

Finally, I want to highlight a crucial issue, the devaluing of core French. Nearly 75% of students enrolled in a French as a second language program outside Quebec take a core French program. There's a persistent perception that that doesn't produce true French speakers, but it's completely inaccurate. With adapted resources and modern teaching methods, core French could play a key role in Canada meeting its bilingualism targets. Improving and enhancing these programs is a realistic and effective way to increase the number of bilingual Canadians and strengthen the education continuum in both official languages.

In conclusion, second-language instruction is an essential driver of cohesion, mobility and linguistic vitality in Canada. The CASLT remains committed to working with the federal government and education partners to advance bilingualism in Canada.

Thank you for your attention.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Thank you, Mr. Potié.

Dr. Dubois now has the floor for five minutes.

[Marie-Nicole Dubois, President, Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique]

Mr. Chair, vice-chairs and members of the committee, thank you for inviting us to speak to you about the situation and challenges facing British Columbia's francophones.

I would like to extend warm greetings to the committee members with whom we have an established relationship, and I invite the new members to meet with us so that we can also build a partnership with them based on trust and collaboration.

The Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique is the official voice of our francophone community. Its mission is not only to promote, represent and defend the rights and interests of francophones in British Columbia, but also to preserve linguistic and cultural heritage. It works with 49 organizations across the province in various sectors. It serves 330,000 francophones living in British Columbia. It's dedicated to the advancement of a welcoming and inclusive francophonie. Its efforts are aimed at expanding British Columbia's francophone and francophile space.

The education continuum is always a difficult goal to achieve on the ground. Despite some positive developments, we're far from being able to say that we have a complete and, above all, functional education continuum. We remain very far from the principle of equivalency as set out by the Supreme Court of Canada, namely that students whose access to French-language education is guaranteed under section 23 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms are entitled to institutions equivalent to those of the majority.

There are financial issues. For example, the chronic underfunding of the Conseil scolaire francophone de la Colombie-Britannique has serious consequences, such as a lack of educational resources, excessively large class sizes and inadequate infrastructure. Despite a 20% increase in 2023, funding related to the official languages in education program, or OLEP, agreement remains insufficient. The funding had not been increased for 10 years, despite the fact that enrolment was up and the cost of living had risen. Agreements are often renegotiated very late, which causes additional stress. Section 41 of the modernized Official Languages Act should be applied to reform the OLEP, establish mechanisms for genuine consultations between the departments of education and the communities, and promote transparency and accountability to determine where the funding the federal government gives to the provinces and territories goes. Why not give the funding directly to the school boards?

There are human resource challenges. The procedures for the review of teacher certification by the Commissioner for Teacher Regulation take too long, even for certificates from countries that have reciprocity agreements. Complementary training is very expensive. The provincial government's policy for skilled labour relies on the goodwill of professional orders, but these orders are very reluctant to recognize foreign credentials. What can be done to help speed up teacher certification? We can increase the number of double degree agreements and encourage that new agreements be reached with countries other than France, begin processes prior to arrival in British Columbia to use such things as pre-departure services and provide financial assistance for refresher courses, because they are very expensive.

When it comes to infrastructure, we also face some challenges. Schools need to be built and existing schools need to be modernized. We have a lack of local schools, which results in long bus rides and overcrowding in many schools. In the long term, using portables gets very expensive. The lack of competitive infrastructure discourages enrolment, and misalignment between growth projections and funding hinders network development. In addition, francophone immigration, which is a driver of growth for our communities, puts even more pressure on our minority school systems.

To conclude, the precarious nature of the early childhood sector, which isn't covered by the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms but is recognized by the federal government, combined with many challenges, including the ones I just listed, has made the education continuum remain elusive.

We encourage the members of this committee to go through the agreements between the federal government and the provinces with a fine-tooth comb to ensure that the consultation and impact measures set out in the modernized Official Languages Act are enforced, particularly in the education and early childhood agreements. At the moment, there is virtually no enforcement. We're counting on you to advance our rights and support the development of minority francophone communities.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Thank you very much, Dr. Dubois.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for their presentations. We will now go to questions from members.

Mr. Dalton, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Dr. Dubois, from the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique, it's always a pleasure to see you. Is the federation celebrating its 80th anniversary this year?

[Marie-Nicole Dubois]

Yes.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Congratulations. That's great.

Thank you for all the work your organization does for francophones and francophiles in British Columbia. As you know, I'm a member of Parliament who represents a riding in British Columbia. Your organization is essential to the vitality of our official language minority community. You may not know this, but I was a core French teacher for many years. Thank you again for your work.

I have a question about the money for elementary and secondary education. You said that the money is now paid directly to the provinces and not to the school boards. In the past, did the money go to school boards, but that's no longer the case?

[Marie-Nicole Dubois]

What happens is that the money goes to the provinces, and the provinces allocate a certain amount, depending on the number of students enrolled. There's no accountability, so we don't know exactly where the money is going. A portion of that amount that should be allocated to the French-language school board could be paid at some point to the core French program. I'm not saying that core French is not important. On the contrary, it's essential. However, the money should go to the right place. Since there's no accountability, once the federal government has paid out the money, it thinks that the money is being used for French courses. That's the problem. If the money went directly to the school board, there would then be accountability, and we'd know exactly where the money is going. All the funding would go to the school board, not who knows where.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Okay.

The government has just tabled its budget, which represents the largest deficit in Canadian history, except during the COVID‑19 pandemic. In the opposition, we're studying the impact of inflation. Can you talk a little bit about the costs of inflation and how that's impacting your organization, as well as the 49 organizations you represent? Can you talk a bit about the impact of inflation on your organization in relation to government funding?

[Marie-Nicole Dubois]

When you look at the rents nowadays, it's a prohibitive cost for some of our organizations that are looking for appropriate places to operate.

You have to understand that, in a way, the money invested in the francophonie goes to two groups. We provide basic services to francophones and francophiles. Many of them are very proud of their francophonie, and increasingly so as a result of the current context. These individuals can then have a good quality of life. When people have a good quality of life, they're productive. When they're productive, they make money, part of which goes to the government, and that keeps the wheel turning.

Right now, in the context of inflation, everything costs a lot more, but our budgets remain the same. Sometimes, I look at the situation and wonder how we manage to perform miracles with the funding we receive.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Thank you, Dr. Dubois.

Mr. Potié and Ms. Ostapyk, thank you for your work. As a former teacher and modern languages department head, this issue is very close to my heart.

We live in a country that's becoming more and more multicultural. In fact, Canada is one of the most multicultural countries in the world. We conducted a study here in committee on the decline of French in official language minority communities. Are you seeing a decline in interest for learning French among parents and high school students, or is the opposite happening?

[Francis Potié]

Following the pandemic, we observed a slowdown in enrolment in French immersion programs in a number of places. In some places, the requirement to teach French is being removed, especially in certain rural school boards. That's why the proportion of students living outside Quebec who are enrolled in a French as a second language program has risen to 45%. It used to be higher.

I don't know if it's because of a drop in interest, but the teacher shortage is certainly a factor. In core French alone, there is a shortage of 7,000 to 8,000 teachers, which puts a lot of pressure on school authorities, if only to offer the programs. So I would say it's more a lack of resources than a drop in interest.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Thank you, Mr. Dalton.

Mr. Deschênes‑Thériault, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Guillaume Deschênes-Thériault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses.

Dr. Dubois, we met last summer and had a good discussion. I hope to be able to continue these enriching discussions on the promotion and vitality of French across the country, including in British Columbia.

In your province, you've often had to turn to the courts to assert your language and education rights. The Supreme Court handed down a landmark decision in 2020, because we know that the provincial government hasn't always supported French-language education in the province as it should. Since that decision, have you seen any changes in the province's support for French-language education? How has that evolved over the last five years?

[Marie-Nicole Dubois]

No, unfortunately. The school board went back to court because, even though we won the case, there was no action afterwards. I admit that things have been moving forward recently, but it's taking so long. Even if we agree to have a school built, it takes a very long time for that to happen. That said, this is brand new; it's only been a few months. The short answer is no, but we're hopeful.

[Guillaume Deschênes-Thériault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

In the media, we've heard that the province has chronically underfunded school transportation for francophones in British Columbia. Is that correct?

[Marie-Nicole Dubois]

Yes, absolutely.

One of the big problems is that, with the amount of money we are given, we also have to pay for school transportation. Since we don't have a school nearby for the courageous families who choose to send their children to a French-language school, the students have to take the bus. This results in an additional cost that neighbourhood schools do not have to bear. So there is underfunding. I don't understand how our schools manage to make ends meet with this budget headache.

[Guillaume Deschênes-Thériault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

So we can see that there's a problem in the province's support for French-language education.

I'd like to address the issue a little more broadly by talking about the education continuum, which goes from early childhood to post-secondary education. The federal government's latest action plan for official languages provides for an investment of $4.1 billion, including $1.4 billion in new funding, and a large part of that money will be used to support the French-language education continuum in the country.

We're talking about $900 million to support minority-language education, French-as-a-second-language learning, support for minority-language post-secondary education, which benefited the Collège Éducacentre in British Columbia, and early childhood development. For example, investments will be made in creating a network of early childhood workers in francophone communities and in strengthening the capacities of educators.

Can you tell me about the importance of this funding for the French-language education continuum in British Columbia?

[Marie-Nicole Dubois]

It's absolutely essential. For language to really be integrated, learning has to start in early childhood. So we absolutely have to invest in that.

The same is true for post-secondary education. We don't have a university here, but we do have certain programs that are essential to having a vibrant francophonie. This is possible, because I see a great deal of interest from the people around us. Anglophones want to speak French. They are proud that our country has two official languages. In general, that's what we see. The problem is that the necessary investments aren't being made to offer services. We were talking earlier about the decline in the number of students enrolled in immersion programs or French courses: it's not because of a lack of interest; it's because governments aren't funding the programs.

[Guillaume Deschênes-Thériault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you very much, Ms. Dubois.

Mr. Potié and Ms. Ostapyk, I'd like to thank your members for their important work in promoting bilingualism in Canada, which contributes to greater vitality of francophone communities. To have strong francophone communities outside Quebec, French must be present in the public sphere. Training in French as a second language allows people who work in the service sector, whether in stores, cafés or public services, to offer services in French. So this is an important factor in vitality.

I understand from your testimony that there are challenges in terms of labour, particularly when it comes to recruitment and retention. Can you tell me about a winning strategy that would help improve workforce retention and training? What more could we do?

[Francis Potié]

I'm not sure where to start on that big question.

The labour crisis is multi-faceted. A lot of people are retiring and fewer young people are moving up the ladder, for instance. As for retention, a number of studies by the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages and the Canadian Association of Immersion Professionals, among others, show that there is also a crisis among new teachers, who find the profession too difficult from the outset.

There are several challenges. I know that in Canada, it's very complicated to establish certain standards for training second-language teachers. Standards vary greatly across Canada. In fact, from one institution to another or from one province to another, certified teachers have received varying degrees of training. At the beginning of their careers, new teachers therefore have a steep learning curve. Under our system, new employees often end up with the most complex and difficult workload. This is perhaps the only sector in Canada where new employees are treated this way. It should come as no surprise, then, that employees find the work quite difficult.

Training and supporting early-career teachers are important avenues—

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

I'm sorry, Mr. Potié, but I have to interrupt you because the time is up. I always try to allow the witnesses to finish their answers, but sometimes I have to cut them off. You may have a chance to come back to it in response to the other members' questions.

Mr. Beaulieu, you now have the floor for six minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses.

Ms. Dubois, not long ago, we heard from representatives of the Fédération des parents francophones de Colombie-Britannique. When we look at that, there has clearly been an obstruction to French-language education and intentional anglicization of francophones as a result of British and English-Canadian colonialism. We were told that it was in 1977 that the British Columbia government granted francophones the right to French-language education.

When we look at what's happening today, we see that there's a lack of political will when it comes to funding French-language schools. You mentioned the chronic underfunding of French-language schools, and all the other witnesses have spoken about this as well. We have to wonder whether, in the end, there isn't a desire to let the assimilation of francophones continue by underfunding educational institutions. What do you think?