Pay Equity Committee on April 13th, 2016

[The Chair, Liberal, Anita Vandenbeld]

I will call the meeting to order.

This part of committee business was to discuss the work plan that was prepared by the analyst. Thank you very much to the analyst for doing this.

By way of a little explanation, we had given until April 7 for members to submit any suggestions for witnesses. Every witness suggestion that was submitted by any member of the committee is included in this work plan.

We have received correspondence from the Canadian Union of Public Employees requesting to come before the committee. Each of you received that previous to this meeting. I will put that in, in case the committee wishes to take that into consideration when looking at the work plan.

One of the things we looked at was the number of meetings. The library analysts worked backward from the date of June 10, which is when we have to report back to the House and looked at how long it takes for translation, and how long it will take to draft the report, and that left us, after this meeting, with only four meetings when we could hear from witnesses.

You will see there are bullets, and three sections for each of the dates. That's because we were putting them into three hours as opposed to two hours, which would mean the committee would sit from 5:30 to 8:30 on those four days. That's what's proposed in the work plan. That could be changed, of course, if it's the will of the committee.

The other additional piece was that we had invited the three relevant ministers to the committee. We had correspondence back and forth through the clerk and the only time and date that all three ministers are available is on May 3.

That's not a day the committee would normally sit. That's a Tuesday, from 5:30 to 7:30. We had tried to get the ministers, but the earliest would have been May 11, which is after we would give the drafting instructions to the clerk, so it wouldn't have been particularly useful.

That's why we're proposing for your consideration in this work plan one additional meeting on May 3.

Finally, the clerk has suggested that the normal practice in cases where we have multiple witnesses is that if there is the possibility of three or more witnesses on a single panel, instead of 10 minutes, we would just agree now that we would go to seven minutes per witness. We would do that because the clerk could inform the witnesses ahead of time how many minutes they would have. If it's fewer than three witnesses, they would have the 10 minutes. That's another thing that's being proposed, and I would invite a motion with respect to that while we're discussing the work plan.

That's it. I will put it out to the committee. I'll keep a speaker's list for whoever wants to comment.

Mr. Sheehan.

[Terry Sheehan, Liberal, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

About your comment on moving from 10 to seven minutes if we have three or more witnesses, I noticed nodding heads on the other side. I'll put forward a motion to instruct the clerk to do that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anita Vandenbeld]

Okay. It's been so moved.

Mr. Albas.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

With regard to the work plan, I note that Statistics Canada will be one of our witnesses at some point.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anita Vandenbeld]

We have a motion on the floor now regarding the timing of the witnesses. Is that related to the motion?

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anita Vandenbeld]

Do we need a seconder?

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Julie Lalande Prud'homme]

No.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Do you mean how much time? They have seven minutes in this case. Okay. We'll just let that slide. I thought you meant timing with regard to when they come.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anita Vandenbeld]

No, these would be separate panels. If there is a panel, for instance, on the 18th, it's presumed that the Human Rights Commission would be by itself. Then there's another one with two. But the third one is three. Where we would have the possibility of three or more, they would go to seven minutes instead of 10. Otherwise, we would take the whole hour with the witnesses' presentations.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

I don't think we need a motion unless someone objects. This seems to be the sensible way to handle it, and it would be faster for us just to move on.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anita Vandenbeld]

Seeing no objections, I will say that's how we will proceed.

Are there any comments?

Yes, Mr. Albas.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

In regard to Statistics Canada, I've had them come before public accounts, and they're good at what they do. I'm sure the evidence will be very compelling. In this case, I believe it is Minister Bains who is responsible for that department.

Here in the work plan, we have Statistics Canada on May 4. I want to see if there's any opportunity to have Statistics Canada come earlier. We may find that the way they collect their information could be done in a different way that would help us to raise the profile of this issue, but ultimately, they can't do anything without a ministerial directive. At some point, we may want to invite Minister Bains to come in and discuss that department. Perhaps he could lend us his support if there are further changes that can be made, or perhaps he could just give us his opinion on this.

[The Clerk]

As a point of clarification, Statistics Canada is not going to be ready for next week, and that's why we put them in the following week. But we could put them on May 2, if it's better than May 4.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Chances are there's a reason why all three ministers can make it on May 3. But if Statistics Canada tells us we need to talk to their minister about this, we may want to call Minister Bains or his parliamentary secretary. That's another alternative. If the minister can't make it, perhaps we could have the parliamentary secretary. I know Ms. Murray would be fantastic to hear on these issues.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anita Vandenbeld]

So we will instruct the clerk to try to get Statistics Canada earlier.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

I'm not going to be the tail wagging the dog, Madam Chair, but I would appreciate it if that could be looked at.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anita Vandenbeld]

No objections? Okay.

Ms. Murray.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

I think they were made in good spirit, the suggestions that Dan has put forward.

Having Statistics Canada come early is logical. But we're short of time, and I think the committee might want to hear people who really understand the issues of pay equity, the history. This committee has been given a month to do what a previous Liberal government said would take 14 months. For this reason, I think a general briefing on Statistics Canada by the minister would not be a good use of time. That's just a different opinion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anita Vandenbeld]

Is this on the same topic, Ms. Benson, or is this a response?

[Sheri Benson, NDP, Saskatoon West, SK]

No, I don't want to talk about—

[The Chair, Liberal, Anita Vandenbeld]

Mr. Albas.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

I can appreciate that. If Statistics Canada comes in and everything they're doing is 100% in the direction of where the committee believes they should be going, I'm fine with that. But if they don't have the authority to say that we need a descriptive path laid out by a minister, I think it's our job as parliamentarians to raise it with the relevant minister. At the end of the day, this is about trying to create awareness. But we also want to be able to say we were proud to be part of this committee. Minister Bains is uniquely positioned to hear our concerns in regard to Statistics Canada. But if there is nothing there and they are doing everything right, I would be the first one to say that the minister's not necessary.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anita Vandenbeld]

I can inform the committee that just to be prudent, we have added an additional date, the 6th of May, which is a Friday. That's just in case there is something that emerges in the course of our deliberations where we would want to bring in extra witnesses before the drafting instructions.

Ms. Benson.

[Sheri Benson, NDP, Saskatoon West, SK]

Madam Chair, I support having as many witnesses as possible to give us the depth and the breadth of not only employers, but also employees.

I like the suggestion of reducing the time so that we can hear from more people. In that vein, my thoughts about the 18th are that the Public Service Alliance of Canada will be the largest group of employees. I would prefer to award them more time, and maybe have the smaller employee group, the financial officers, be a part of a larger panel. I'm asking if people feel that that's appropriate.