Physician-Assisted Dying Committee on Feb. 1st, 2016

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Kelvin Kenneth Ogilvie]

Mr. Arseneault.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for Mr. Miller, who represents the Canadian Cancer Society.

Mr. Miller, I don't want to repeat what senators Cowan and Joyal just said candidly, but you started off by announcing that you were not here to help the committee find a solution in relation to its mandate concerning the Carter decision. To be frank, and perhaps not candid, I must say that I am very disappointed in the Canadian Cancer Society, since many Canadians die from cancer.

Are you the spokesperson for the Canadian Cancer Society? Was your mandate to come here....

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Kelvin Kenneth Ogilvie]

Yes, Mr. Warawa.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

Thank you.

We've invited witnesses and I'm concerned that we are now criticizing one of the witnesses because they don't have a position. They've shared their position and now to bait them and insult them, saying that we're very disappointed with this organization, which is respected around the country, I think that's inappropriate and it is carrying this too far.

They're here to witness and I encourage us not to put words in the mouths of any witnesses, and that we respect the witnesses and we show respect. I'm concerned that we're going too far when we start criticizing them and saying we're disappointed that they don't have this or that position.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Kelvin Kenneth Ogilvie]

Your point is well-taken. We are here to get advice with regard to advising the government on the legislation and I would urge us all to stick to that objective.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Mr. Chair, I wanted to point out that we do not know what the Canadian Cancer Society's position is regarding the Carter decision. My intention was not to insult anyone. If that is how you understood what I said, Mr. Miller, I apologize.

You said a few times that thousands of Canadians had no access to palliative care. I even read that about 70% of Canadians had no access to such care. Is that indeed how you see the situation in Canada?

[Gabriel Miller]

Thank you very much for the question.

I will answer in English.

I have to be honest with you, I've heard several different figures. That's the figure that's in the panel's report. Our report has different figures from across the country. I've heard figures as low as 15%, and to be honest that illustrates the problem.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Pardon me, what would be 15%?

[Gabriel Miller]

That's 15% of Canadians have access to palliative care.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Only...?

[Gabriel Miller]

The fact that in public circulation there are estimates as low as 15% and up to 50% to 60% is a pretty clear indication that we don't have a good handle in this country on how well palliative care is being provided, or at what level in different parts of the country. In fact we don't even have a common definition.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Mr. Miller, let's talk about statistics when it comes to access to palliative care.

Like me, you said that you have heard some things on the issue. Has the Canadian Cancer Society conducted studies to obtain accurate statistics on the accessibility of palliative care across Canada?

[Gabriel Miller]

Our report is based on a complete review of all the most recent literature across the country. In terms of the statistics that we cite in ours, because palliative care isn't measured or defined in the same way across the country, you have to gauge access through other indicators. One of the best indicators is how many people are dying in hospital instead of at home. Almost one in two cancer patients are dying in hospital, which is an indication that they aren't getting palliative care early enough and not getting the chance to choose where they receive care.

We don't have an estimate that we've generated ourselves of how many Canadians have access to palliative care. It would take considerable resources to generate such an estimate, because first you would need to define it for the whole country and then you would have to go out and collect data. That's not being done in the same way in different parts of this country right now, by anybody.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Kelvin Kenneth Ogilvie]

This brings us to the end of this session. We've let it go a little bit longer because of the absence of the third panel we had hoped for.

I do want to thank our guests today.

Before I officially close the meeting, I have a couple of notes for committee members.

I can advise you that tomorrow's meeting is expected to be as scheduled, from 5:30 until 8:30. It is expected to go as per the schedule. However, for Wednesday and Thursday there may be votes, so we will try to adjust the schedule as required. We will let everyone know as soon as we have confirmation of the vote issue. In doing so, we will try to start the meetings earlier, as opposed to going later. With regard to Friday, I want to remind us that we have two meetings in camera, one from 9 to 11, and a second one from 12:30 to 2:30.

That is the schedule, with certain certainties now, and certain uncertainties. The uncertainty will be as to when the meetings start on Wednesday and Thursday. That's it.

With that, I declare the meeting adjourned.