Evidence of meeting #36 for Public Accounts in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was reports.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Bloc
Jean-Yves Laforest Bloc Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
Electronic copies are only used within the office. They are therefore not sent out.
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
That is correct.
Bloc
Jean-Yves Laforest Bloc Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
In response to one of my colleague's questions, you said that no one, to your knowledge, had been found guilty of leaking documents. And yet there have been leaks in the past. I have not been a member for very long, but I still did follow this issue a little bit.
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Yes, there have been other leaks.
Bloc
Jean-Yves Laforest Bloc Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
This problem has never been solved. The machinery of government has never been able to trace the source of a leak.
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
That is the fact of the matter.
Bloc
Jean-Yves Laforest Bloc Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
All right. Surprisingly enough, the people who succeed in doing this have a well-kept secret. However, it is both difficult and easy to imagine that such leaks could occur in the machinery of a government the size of the federal government. On the one hand, perhaps a leak can occur more easily in a large organization, but on the other hand, with increasingly sophisticated security systems, it is more and more difficult to imagine that leaks can still occur.
You spoke of the drafts that are sent to the departments. Is the final draft also sent to various departments before publication?
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Yes, several draft versions may be exchanged. As soon as we receive a draft from the principal, we begin validating it. Further draft versions can be sent as changes are made. Ultimately, a final draft is sent to the deputy minister, who is asked to confirm the facts and to give us a reply from the department or from the government. This is, as it were, the final draft. No further draft versions are sent out after this, and the text is printed.
Jean-Yves Laforest Bloc Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
Documents can be sent to a department two or three times.
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Yes, at least two or three times, and even more; it depends on the type of audit.
Bloc
Jean-Yves Laforest Bloc Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
Is this frequent exchange not a part of the problem?
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Yes, but the exchange of documents is a crucial part of an audit. In fact, when we table a report before Parliament, we must agree with the department on the facts, and we can confirm the facts through the exchange process. At the end of an audit, we even ask the deputy minister to confirm the factual data. We cannot disagree in public over the facts, although we can disagree about the conclusions. It is up to us to draw the conclusions.
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
We have to have this exchange to validate the facts. They send us corrections and we make the corrections. This is an interactive process of exchange with the department.
Bloc
Jean-Yves Laforest Bloc Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
Had the final draft already been drafted when the leak occurred on November 8, 2006?
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
We need to look at the exact dates, but I could verify them, Mr. Chairman. If the report had not yet been sent, it was about to be sent.
Bloc
Jean-Yves Laforest Bloc Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
In your opinion, did the leak refer to a draft version or to the final report?
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
I do not know. I do not know exactly what it referred to, because it quotes certain things. Could it be that a journalist had a copy or that someone could have seen or been informed about the results of the audit which they then shared?
Bloc
Jean-Yves Laforest Bloc Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
All right.
I will give Ms. Brunelle some time for one brief question.
Conservative
John Williams Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
In the absence of somebody putting up a hand, I'm not sure how far we're going to go here.
Ms. Meredith, can you briefly tell me what kind of investigation you conducted on this particular leak?
Daphne Meredith Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Following the May 11 leak, I think, on the firearms chapter, we were asked by the OAG to conduct an investigation.
