Evidence of meeting #51 for Public Accounts in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was insurance.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:55 p.m.
D/Commr Paul Gauvin
I'm sorry, I can't answer it. This is a human resources issue. I'm a financial person and I don't make recommendations on who gets fired and who doesn't.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
But your evidence is that you knew what was going on, you knew there was a problem. You were trying to underpin the problem by taking away his authority, by putting someone in to watch him, but no one ever thought to fire the man.
4:55 p.m.
D/Commr Paul Gauvin
Well, we certainly had problems on the contracting side and we took his authority away, yes.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
John Williams Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You just kind of pre-empted some of my questions, but I'd like to have Staff Sergeant Frizzell come forward, please.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
He can sit over beside Mr. Whitehall.
You can stay where you are, Mr. Macaulay.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
John Williams Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
The reason I wanted Staff Sergeant Frizzell to come forward, Mr. Chairman, is that I have a problem in my mind. I just heard Mr. Gauvin tell us that the premiums on the insurance were collected on behalf of the insurance company and turned over to Great-West Life. That sounds to me to be a very simple transaction, yet if I recall from previous testimony, Mr. Frizzell said it was a cheque for $500,000, give or take— $534,000 or something—that was written payable to somebody else.
Am I correct in my assumption, Staff Sergeant Frizzell, that it was a cheque for some $530,000 that was taken out and sent somewhere else?
5 p.m.
Staff Sergeant Mike Frizzell Staff Sergeant, Strategic and Operational Support, National Child Exploitation Coordination Centre, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Yes, there was some $570,000 taken out of the insurance funds to put back into the pension.
5 p.m.
Conservative
John Williams Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
Okay.
Mr. Gauvin, you said basically it was a simple transfer arrangement. The money is collected, deducted from paycheques, and given to Great-West Life. Now we find $570,000 diverted to the pension fund. You're the CFO. That's a lot of money. What do you say?
5 p.m.
D/Commr Paul Gauvin
Sir, I didn't say it was a simple transaction. Basically, what I said was—
5 p.m.
Conservative
John Williams Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
Well, I'm an accountant. I consider it a simple transaction.
5 p.m.
D/Commr Paul Gauvin
Well, I beg to differ.
Anyway, what happened here is that the RCMP doesn't have a mandate to charge insurance administration—
5 p.m.
Conservative
John Williams Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
No, I'm not going into all the details. The simple question was this. You said the money is collected and given to Great-West Life. Now we find $570,000 diverted off in a different direction, under your watch. What do you say?
5 p.m.
D/Commr Paul Gauvin
I can't answer this in just a yes or no fashion. What I have to say here is that, in HR, they decided, through the insurance committee, that they would charge part of the insurance to the pension plan, without telling anybody.
5 p.m.
Conservative
5 p.m.
D/Commr Paul Gauvin
Without telling anybody.
5 p.m.
D/Commr Paul Gauvin
That's right.
5 p.m.
D/Commr Paul Gauvin
If they had told me, I would not have allowed it.
5 p.m.
D/Commr Paul Gauvin
May I continue? You have a good question.
5 p.m.
D/Commr Paul Gauvin
Then what happened is that all of a sudden we get a bill from Great-West Life to pay them. So we say we can't pay them, because we can't pay them out of the pension. It doesn't make sense that you can charge insurance to pension.
5 p.m.
Conservative