Evidence of meeting #53 for Public Accounts in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was investigation.
A recording is available from Parliament.
6:30 p.m.
As an Individual
Well, right now, if you took all my service, I have 34 years of service, and I have about 20 in the access to information legislation.
6:30 p.m.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
So you had 20 years there.
We've heard from Mr. Estabrooks that Mr. Gauvin perhaps has run unusual interference on the ATIP requests on the Ottawa Police investigation. And we've also heard the very disturbing news that as recently as a week and a half ago, on a Friday, his executive assistant got into a secure area where the archives are kept, and made a demand for documents, which was highly improper.
Mr. Sirois, you were in charge of the ATIP request on the internal audit. This is the same question I put to Mr. Estabrooks: Was there anything unusual in the process and what occurred around the ATIP requests on the internal audit?
6:30 p.m.
As an Individual
There was nothing unusual in the original request, the first request. We received two requests. In the first request, we were just asked to stand down, because there was an ongoing criminal investigation. There was really nothing wrong with that.
And then the best judge.... If the disclosure of the information would impede the investigation, or Inspector Roy and then Mr. William Sullivan.... We met with them, and they reviewed the report, and then we reviewed the report again. And then, yes, we decided that for the time being it was better to sit down and wait until the investigation was over.
So there was nothing unusual, because they are the ones who know. We're not in a position to know exactly, because, practically, we didn't have any clue as to what they would find in doing the investigation
6:30 p.m.
Liberal
6:30 p.m.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Were there any unusual occurrences surrounding that one?
6:30 p.m.
As an Individual
It was put on the back burner because the investigation was ongoing. If you look at the time that we received the request, you'll see that the investigation was ongoing.
6:30 p.m.
Liberal
6:30 p.m.
As an Individual
The first one was fulfilled, but it was devoid of substance, practically. Out of 25 pages, there was nothing to....
And then on the second request, I contacted their requester, and I said, “Listen, would you rather wait, or do you want me to send you almost 25 blank pages?” There were 22 or 25; I don't remember exactly. And the second requester told me, “I'm going to wait until the end.”
6:30 p.m.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Ms. George, we've heard that you placed calls to Assistant Commissioner LaFosse. Is that correct, that you placed a call?
6:30 p.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
That is correct.
6:30 p.m.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Yes?
We heard from Assistant Commissioner LaFosse that you requested that Mr. Frizzell be removed. Is that correct, or not correct--yes or no?
6:30 p.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
No. What I requested, I told him about, very briefly, because our conversation lasted, as he said, less than a minute. I said that I was having a lot of difficulty listening to complaints of harassment and that this had to be stopped.
Now, if Mr. LaFosse, with all due respect, thinks that's removal, then that's his opinion. But what I said was “He needs to be stopped”. And he said, “Well, Barb, you don't speak to me. I have nothing to do with him. Talk to Bruce.”
6:35 p.m.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Ms. George, thank you.
And he was absolutely unequivocal in saying that he understood that conversation as being a request for removal and told you to speak to Assistant Commissioner Rogerson. And we've heard....
You did call Assistant Commissioner Rogerson. You're in agreement with that?
6:35 p.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Assistant Commissioner LaFosse was not in a position—
6:35 p.m.
Liberal
April 30th, 2007 / 6:35 p.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
—of power to remove anybody, nor was I. And I did call Assistant Commissioner—
6:35 p.m.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
And we heard today Assistant Commissioner Rogerson state that he understood your phone call as a request to have Mr. Frizzell removed. Did you make that request--yes or no?
6:35 p.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
I made a request to have his behaviour stopped. I needed somebody to speak with him. These are my recollections.
6:35 p.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
I cannot give you a yes or no answer. This was two years ago. With all due respect, I was very concerned about the people, and when I spoke with Assistant Commissioner Rogerson, I needed someone to speak with Sergeant Frizzell.
6:35 p.m.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
When I asked you, back in February, who ordered the removal, you didn't say, “It was over two years ago, and I can't remember and I don't know exactly.” You were absolutely clear. You stated:
I can state with absolute finality that it was neither Commissioner Zaccardelli nor me who had anything whatsoever to do with, as you say, the removal of Sergeant Frizzell.
At that time you did not say “I can't remember”.
6:35 p.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
I can still tell you that today. It was neither of us.
6:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Okay. We're getting the bells. I'm going to allow Mr. Lake five minutes and then the gavel's coming down and we're going to adjourn the meeting.
6:35 p.m.
Conservative
John Williams Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
I have a motion I would like to introduce, Mr. Chairman.