Public Accounts Committee on May 29th, 2007

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

Do you expect charges to be laid?

[S/Sgt Mike Frizzell]

No.

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

That actually throws a different light on the issue, Mr. Chairman, if in essence it's not before the courts.

[An hon. member]

Is there an ongoing investigation?

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

Is there an ongoing investigation? I don't believe there is.

[S/Sgt Mike Frizzell]

Mr. Brown's is the only one.

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

Mr. Brown's is the only one, and that's not this investigation.

[A voice]

It's not even an investigation.

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

Well, we will debate that one.

Therefore, it's not before the courts, Mr. Chairman.

People have to be held accountable for what they write. Therefore, I am now leaning towards the idea that we let these names out in public, because these are public servants writing and making decisions and so on, and it's up to us, as an investigation, to put this in the public domain. So my objections are perhaps not there any more, now that I know that it's not before the courts.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Ms. Sgro, do you have a comment?

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Mr. Frizzell, you have brought so many witnesses and given us so many tons of information today. How crucial and critical is it that you read out the e-mails we're currently discussing?

[S/Sgt Mike Frizzell]

My apologies to the committee. I thought this would bring clarity because of the whole he-said-she-said nature of it. Rather than me sitting here yammering on about what I believe happened, I would read to you the exact words of the people who were involved. And I can preface it by saying that a criminal investigation did happen, but no charges were laid.

I have an interpretation of these words, but these words may be interpreted completely differently by you or by a court. I quite simply don't want to make myself a target by breaching any laws.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Is there going to be a significant difference from what we've already heard as a result of you giving us the information from the e-mails? Is it going to change anything we've already heard?

[S/Sgt Mike Frizzell]

I don't think I can draw a conclusion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Do you have a point of order? What's going on?

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

I have a quick question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

No, hold on, there's a speakers list.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Oh, is there? Well, I'll just ask to be put on the list.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

We'll have Mr. Fitzpatrick.

[Brian Fitzpatrick, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

I'm mixed up. We've heard people say that this is a committee of accountability, so we can have quotes from unnamed sources that are very important evidence. But as for the person who made the quote, we're guessing where this quote came from. How can you have accountability without knowing who said it? It's an impossibility. So I'm really puzzled by that argument that we can have accountability without knowing who said what. This is unreal.

As to the point about us going in camera with the names, I wish I had Mr. Christopherson's quotes on some of this. We can bring these names in our own little secret meetings and go over them, and I guess we'd have some special insights that the public can't address and so on, and we can be the guardians. That's a position that I don't think is tenable and that I don't want to take.

The second point I'll make is that for in camera names and so on in this committee, we haven't had a very good track record of keeping them in camera. They'll probably be in the press the day after we get them. So what is that going to accomplish? We've seen that enough times to know that it isn't going to work. So if we're going to proceed with Borys's motion, I think we'd better go in there with our eyes wide open, because the names are going to get out. Somebody in this committee, in the past, has been releasing names from in camera, and it's going to happen again.

These are the points I'll make on that. There's no accountability without knowing where those quotations came from.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Go ahead, Mr. Wrzesnewskyj.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

I was the one who originally requested that the names be given to us in this committee. I had attempted to provide an accommodation, after some of the comments were made on the opposite side, that would give us the option of getting the names and going public with them after hearing who these individuals were. I'm more than happy, now that I see that a consensus has been arrived at, to go back to my original request.

I'll remove my motion and request that the names be tabled along with the e-mails.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

There seems to be a consensus emerging on that point.

Mr. Poilievre is next. Go ahead, Mr. Poilievre.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

I want to get to the core of your concern here. Were these e-mails derived from your investigative work?

[S/Sgt Mike Frizzell]

Yes.