Evidence of meeting #66 for Public Accounts in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rcmp.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Brian Fitzpatrick
I think you have a good point. Members have a wide latitude in asking questions at committees, but we've had a lot of people travel a long distance to be here, and really the nature of the inquiry today was intended to investigate the outsourcing to the insurance company and Morneau Sobeco, and we seem to be getting quite a way off the track.
So I would encourage members to keep in mind what the plan was and what the steering committee had in mind too, and not go too far off the rails here.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Thank you.
Assistant Commissioner, were you ready to resign at that time and had you submitted your resignation?
A/Commr David Gork
As a matter of fact I had, and because you've asked me that question, at least I think I deserve the time to respond to it. I'll keep it as short as I can.
I provided a study book. I didn't realize there were questions from two years prior in that study book. There was nothing wrong with the study book itself, but it was the questions that were protected. As I said, I didn't realize that. When it was reported through and they started an investigation, I said fine, do the investigation. I cooperated fully with them. I admitted my error and at the same time I submitted my resignation because I felt accountable. The departmental security officer, of all people, has to be the one who is above reproach, and I had screwed up.
There's my resignation.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Would Assistant Commissioner Tim Killam and Barb George have had input at that time in not accepting your resignation?
A/Commr David Gork
Tim Killam did. Barb George had nothing to do with it. It went to Tim Killam. He said he would not accept my resignation.
A/Commr David Gork
No, absolutely not. From Tim Killam it went to Deputy Loeppky. Deputy Loeppky said that he wanted me to reconsider, and then another incident happened. It was an operational issue. My wife at that time said she did not want me going, because she felt that I wasn't ready to go because I had been involved in an operation all night long. The next day I got hold of Tim and I said, “Okay, I've reconsidered; I'll stay with the organization.” That was the end of it. They had never signed my resignation. It had nothing to do with Barb George--nothing.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Soon afterwards you were promoted to assistant commissioner. Is that not correct?
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
And Barb George was head of office staffing at that time?
Liberal
A/Commr David Gork
I assume, as every member of SEC would have supported it, yes, but it was the commissioner's decision on who he made...within the senior executive of the organization.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Mr. Crupi, you said you were satisfied with the services of Morneau Sobeco. Were you also satisfied with the services of Mr. Roy when it came to the contract that he had with you to build the barn for you?
As an Individual
He didn't build a barn. I've said that before. I think he put up eight posts and roof. That was it. A barn would have a stall and rafters.
As an Individual
Actually I've had to reinforce the structure. It was falling over. So I guess I can say I was not satisfied, sir.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Mr. Roy, you were satisfied with the promotions that you received in that approximate timeframe?
Senior Policy Analyst, Disability Program & Services, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
I received two increases in pay since joining the RCMP. I have the documents here.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
That was already referenced previously. It was referenced in the Ottawa Police investigation, and they had serious concerns about that.
As an Individual
Can I make one statement here? One of those supposed promotions, sir, was a reclassification involving about 20 people, of whom he was one. So it was not a promotion of Mr. Roy specifically. Jobs were looked at and rewritten, and the jobs of 20 different people doing the same function were reclassified higher, through classification, through staffing, which then would have offered the letter of offer.
The second one, as I said, was through officer staffing. Lise Prud'homme sat on that committee with me, and Mr. Roy was one of the successful candidates.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
So, Mr. Crupi, you were quite satisfied with Mr. Roy. Mr. Roy was satisfied with his promotion.
You started off by saying in the previous round that you were quite satisfied with Morneau Sobeco. Why were you so satisfied, especially when if you take a look you'll see that there was a threefold, 300%, increase in the cost?
As an Individual
First of all, you're telling me it's a 300% increase in the costs of Morneau Sobeco. I do not believe they had a 300% increase in cost. Their costs, let's say, were $2 million, representing a flat cost. I believe some changes in contracts were made, certainly never to the $6 million level. But that being said, I was gone, so I really don't know. You're using numbers I'm not aware of, sir.