Evidence of meeting #66 for Public Accounts in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rcmp.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:40 p.m.
A/Commr David Gork
Yes, it was.
And as I said, please go and ask Paul Roy. You've asked him; you've asked the chief of the Ottawa Police Service. You have my word on it, and you have their words on it. That's all I can tell you.
You're trying to create something that isn't there, I'm sorry.
5:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Brian Fitzpatrick
Borys, you're out of time, I'm sorry. I know you had a good question, but we have to move to the next person on the list.
Mr. Sweet, I understand you might be sharing your time with one of your colleagues, so go at it.
5:40 p.m.
Conservative
David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON
Mr. Roy, could you tell me, did you ever falsify any insurance committee minutes?
5:40 p.m.
Senior Policy Analyst, Disability Program & Services, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
No, I did not.
5:40 p.m.
Conservative
David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON
I'm trying to figure out, and all of us are trying to figure out, what the motivation was for doing all of these backflips and making sure Morneau Sobeco got the work for the insurance.
You just said that the e-mail Mr. Christopherson was referencing was sent because you were trying to buy time. Was the motivation behind all of those machinations that you were caught with your proverbial pants down, that all of a sudden the big project you were working on was falling through and you had to get a supplier and had to ram the thing through? Was that the motivation for doing this?
5:40 p.m.
Senior Policy Analyst, Disability Program & Services, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Again, it was six years ago, but at the time, I would say it was not. We just didn't know what to do next at that particular time; we needed time. There was no sense having a meeting following that, because it was of no value.
5:40 p.m.
Conservative
David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON
Okay.
Mr. Casey, you testified that Mr. Roy limited your scope of investigation. You're a professional consultant; I challenged you on doing a thorough investigative job for value for money, and you said the reason you did not go beyond Morneau Sobeco was that your supervisor, Garry Roy, said you should go no further. Now he has said that was not the case. Do you still hold by your words?
5:40 p.m.
Conservative
David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON
With a simple yes or no, sir, do you still stand by your testimony before this committee that Mr. Roy directed you to keep the scope of your investigation for the business case to Morneau Sobeco's numbers?
5:40 p.m.
Conservative
David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON
Mr. Roy or Mr. Crupi.
Could you tell me, Mr. Crupi, did you communicate that they should keep their numbers strictly to Morneau Sobeco's business case?
5:40 p.m.
Conservative
David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON
You don't recall saying that? Well, Mr. Koziol testified that was the case. We have a situation here where apparently a team—
5:40 p.m.
As an Individual
Sorry, sorry, I recall saying “Those are the numbers we have; use them in your business case.” Yes, sorry.
5:40 p.m.
Conservative
David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON
Well, could you tell me why you did not go any broader than that?
Mr. Casey actually said in his last testimony that it was first because of security, and then it was because of direction.
But could you tell me why you didn't go beyond Morneau Sobeco's numbers to ensure those were accurate?
5:40 p.m.
As an Individual
At the time, she thought the numbers were good enough, and we could move forward. It was an estimate; it was a business case estimate we would have in our pockets and move forward with.
5:40 p.m.
Conservative
David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON
I find it difficult that no one on this team pushed back on this issue. You're a payroll specialist; we have professional consultants. You obviously know something of finances if you're a payroll specialist, and no one ever stopped to say that this would not pass public scrutiny if we didn't go out and get some competitive numbers. Everyone just said Morneau Sobeco's numbers were okay, and they ended up with the business.
5:45 p.m.
As an Individual
We just thought the numbers were sufficient to do the business case.
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
5:45 p.m.
Some hon. members
Agreed.
