Public Accounts Committee on March 13th, 2008

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Again, on page 14 of the report, one of the biggest concerns is that scientists and the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans are making quota allocations or decisions on fisheries using unreliable information.

Regarding the maintenance concerns of those vessels, opening up a limited fishery in an area that hasn't been properly surveyed and without having the scientific information could be very damaging to fish stocks. So I would hope we don't see something like that again.

But Mr. Da Pont, in a previous committee you and I talked a lot about the moving of the icebreakers from the Halifax region over into St. John's and Argentia. And you have indicated that though there's a certain limited cost in the one area, it won't be much of a cost at all--although people within your department have publicly said that's simply not true.

You issued those reports of the cost analysis to the DFO committee. I was hoping you'd be able to bring one to this committee as well, and that the committee, Mr. Chairman, would ask the Auditor General to look into this prior to the actual move happening in order to ensure that what they say about the cost will definitely be the truth, and that we won't find out six months later, “Oh well, we didn't know about this dredging, or the expansion of a wharf” or something of that nature. We know those things have to happen. But they're being very optimistic that the cost will be almost negligible for the St. John's area.

My question for you is this--and this is all a matter of trust now, Mr. Da Pont and Madam d'Auray. How much money are you going to go to the Treasury Board and ask for? You said you need more resources. You should know the answer of how much money Treasury Board needs to give you in order for you to do your job, so that we don't have a report like this again in the future.

Is it $10 million, $20 million?

[Commr George Da Pont]

We're working right now with the Treasury Board on a very specific submission to offset fuel price increases. Since about 2005 or 2004, our fuel price increase has been $24 million. So we are working with the board to at least offset a portion of that.

Beyond that, as I indicated earlier, the one area where I personally feel we will have to make significant investment is around some of our maintenance work, where we may just not have enough people. That is something we're still working on. I don't have a number at the moment, but I hope to be going forward with that in the next year.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

And what about the reports to the committee?

[Commr George Da Pont]

We are certainly quite prepared to table with this committee all of the material that we tabled with the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans.

If I might be permitted, Mr. Chairman, to make one comment in relation--

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Yes.

[Commr George Da Pont]

You mentioned the possibility of dredging, and I want to make a comment on that, because I do understand that there were some concerns going around that we would somehow have to dredge St. John's base to accommodate the Terry Fox. I want to say that the Terry Fox was tied up there earlier this year. We sent divers down to see how much clearance there was, and we're quite confident that there is no dredging required.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Thank you, Mr. Stoffer.

Mr. Wrzesnewskyj.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Chair, Mr. Stoffer has had a long-standing interest in the coast guard. I think all parties here are very concerned about this report, and I thought I would pass my time over to Mr. Stoffer so he can continue with his line of questioning.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

That's very generous of you, Mr. Wrzesnewskyj.

[An hon. member]

Just in committee, Peter.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Mr. Stoffer, you get two minutes and 40 seconds.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Chocolates are coming your way. Thank you.

Well, I'd like to go back to what Mr. Williams said earlier.

Mr. Da Pont, you have been the commissioner since 2006. In the book it says that a report would be finalized by May 2007, and it's now 2008, a year later. Who did you assign to get that work done?

[Commr George Da Pont]

I'm sorry. Are you referring to the ITS strategy?

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Yes.

[Commr George Da Pont]

That was the responsibility of the director general of technical services and his team.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

And how are they doing?

[Commr George Da Pont]

Well, as I mentioned, the strategy is now complete.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Okay.

To the Auditor General's staff, Mr. Wiersema, you had indicated that you're hopeful and optimistic that you may not have to write a report like this again. But this is the third one since 1983. Optimism and words are always a nice thing. When do you plan on doing another report on the coast guard? When is your next scheduled audit of the coast guard?

[John Wiersema]

Mr. Chairman, at this point--and Mr. O'Brien can correct me if I have this wrong--we have not made any final decisions about when we might revisit the coast guard and do further follow-up. Those decisions might be guided by advice and recommendations from this committee.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

So if the committee makes a request a year from now, you might consider that request?

[John Wiersema]

We always take requests from this committee very seriously in planning our work program.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Mr. O'Brien, you're from the Nova Scotia region, and you've heard a lot about the media reports of the vessels being moved up to Newfoundland. Do you have any opinion to offer?

[John O'Brien, Principal, Office of the Auditor General of Canada]

Mr. Chairman, no.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Hey, you're good. He's good.

I'll pass the remaining minutes to Mr. Christopherson.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I have a quick question.

Commissioner, your opening comments speak to trust, so I'd ask you to comment on this. You said today that “a significant first step was taken in 2003 when it was announced that the Coast Guard would become a special operating agency within DFO.” If we took that as a stand-alone, that would sound like a good thing. You have used the word “significant” a number of times today.

But the statement made by the deputy auditor general today said that, “for example, the coast guard developed a plan for a special operating agency”--which you took the bow for--“even though it did not have the resources it needed to implement the plan. Not surprisingly we found that many elements of this plan were unfinished well after the expected completion date.”

Now, this--because it's your statement--in conjunction with the issue that two of my colleagues have raised about it being a year over date, has happened during your time, sir. We want to have a comfort level that you're actually going to ensure that the promises made this time are really kept. Yet there are a couple of flies in the ointment already. Can you comment on the discrepancy between your bragging about what's done and then the deputy auditor general's saying today--in the same hour--that this was one of the problems? It somewhat speaks to our relationship with you and our trust level.