Public Accounts Committee on May 1st, 2008

[Brian Fitzpatrick, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Thank you, Mr. Fitzpatrick.

Monsieur Laforest.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Welcome to everybody.

Ms. Meredith, you probably know that 95% of the power produced in Quebec is hydroelectric power, a cleaner form of power than that power produced with coal, for example.

Is the fact that there are fewer greenhouse gaz emissions from the power produced in Quebec taken into account when a decision is made about locating a department? We know that there are offers from Quebec as well as Ontario. Considering GHG reduction targets, I believe that this should be taken into account.

[Daphne Meredith]

That's an interesting idea. We incorporate green concepts when we're making building decisions. I'd say we're more aggressive on it when we're doing new building construction and we have a commitment to honour LEED's gold standard. So we do incorporate green into our consideration for buildings. I'm not aware of green being used as a criterion for the location of buildings per se. We're moving it forward on other fronts, not on that one--to date.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I understand your feeling that this should be taken into account but, if I may say so, all opportunities should be taken into account when one tries to reach those targets. This one would be rather easy for the federal government. Interior heating requires a lot of electricity and there are fewer greenhouse gas emissions with the power produced in Quebec.

[Daniel Jean]

I would like to add something, Mr. Laforest.

Sometimes, we have to move to a new building. For example, some Treasury Board staff was moved from Esplanade Laurier to a building on Nepean street. Esplanade Laurier is an older building and we took that opportunity to start a pilot project aimed at seeing if it would be possible to use the new building in a much more ecological manner, whether it be for water consumption, the type of energy used, parking spaces for bicycles, etc.

In answer to the question asked earlier about the steps taken by departments, I would like to say that there are many. For example, at Esplanade Laurier, Treasury Board will soon start sending to composting all the paper towels used in the bathrooms.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I thank you for this additional piece of information.

My next question is more specifically for Mr. Thompson or Ms. Meredith.

In their strategic plans, do departments take account of the environmental contribution of the suppliers in their sustainable development strategies? Let me give you an example. If we talk about integrated management of a green energy program, it seems to me that Economic Development Canada, when they give subsidies, should favor less polluting companies. I am referring to Economic Development Canada but this principle could be applied on a government-wide basis to all departments.

The chairman was asking who was managing this. If we want the process to be truly integrated, someone has to take responsibility and it has to apply everywhere, even to the kind of support provided by our government to companies through subsidies or even tax benefits. Is that already included?

[Daphne Meredith]

I think I'll leave to Mr. Shugart the question of departments' broader sustainable development strategies. Our area of focus is on greening operations per se, and I think we're tipping into another area when we're thinking about companies that might get grants or contributions from the federal government. I would defer to Ian on that.

[Ian Shugart]

Mr. Chairman, I have no knowledge of any such policy being included in the sustainable development strategies. However, it is an interesting idea.

On the side of broader government environmental policy, I think it would not relate to the operations of departments to decide what kind of support to extend through the tax system or....

This is not part of my responsibilities in terms of Environment Canada. As for the purchasing of goods and services, I am not sure at all but I believe we could investigate to see if part of the responsibility belongs to the suppliers of goods and services to the government.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Merci beaucoup, Monsieur Laforest.

Mr. Lake, you have five minutes.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

I want to bring the focus back, if I could, to action. I noticed that when Mr. McGuinty spoke, or went on his rant there, he did talk about the success of Mr. Mulroney, but then he didn't go further to answer my question about what happened after Mulroney, in the period between 1995 and 2005.

Now, I would note that in the House, some time ago, he did speak a little bit about it. He stood up to talk about the Liberal environmental record, and talked not about action but about “platforms for action”. He talked about regulations not implemented but “nearly released”--

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Are there any questions here?

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Yes, I'm coming to them. I'm just setting them up, if I could.

Mr. McGuinty did say that after 13 years they were “set to start operations” on the environment.

I guess my question regarding action, and my concern here, is that the report definitely suggests that there was a problem with either action or at least the ability to explain what you've done and to measure action.

I want to look ahead three years from now, and I want you to assume that you're sitting here again three years from now, Ms. Meredith. What progress will you have made at that point, based on the changes you're making now? What changes will you have made to the way you operate and hold departments accountable that will allow you to give us measurables in terms of the action that has actually been accomplished at that point?

[Daphne Meredith]

I appreciate the question. I think it's a little premature for me to tell you exactly how we're going to be reporting, because really what we're doing is preparing for the 2009 to 2012 sustainable development strategies. We will be working with departments over the next year and a half or so to make sure they're ready for those. I'll be in a much better position later, in a year to 18 months from now, to tell you how, because that's precisely what we're going to be doing with them--figuring out what are going to be the measures, what are going to be the commitments, how much they may vary by department depending on their individual circumstances, and developing that platform as best we can.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Do you have any action plans or anything done since the report that you might be able to table with us in order to show some progress since the report was done in the first place? Do you have anything you could give us to show some progress in the interim?

[Daphne Meredith]

As I mentioned, we have done an action plan that's more detailed than our management response to the audit. We're happy to table that today.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

That's what you talked about.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Yes. It's going to be tabled.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Okay.

[Daphne Meredith]

As part of that, one concrete thing I should mention is that in terms of our green procurement, working through these commodity strategies for some 61 goods and services that departments can then buy from us, that will be complete by December 2008. That will cover what the government normally spends--some $4.5 billion to $5 billion--on goods and services.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Thank you, Mr. Lake.

Mr. Comartin, you have five minutes.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Ms. Meredith, you indicated earlier that when you met with the other heads of department, you presented a deck. Could you provide that to the committee, just for future reference?

[Daphne Meredith]

I don't believe there's any reason why I can't. I can commit to that, yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Ms. Meredith, if you could provide that to the clerk--within a week, let's say--he will circulate it to members of the committee.