Public Accounts Committee on June 5th, 2008

Evidence of meeting #37 for Public Accounts in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sms.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Chapter 3, Oversight of Air Transportation Safety - Transport Canada of the May 2008 Report of the Auditor General of Canada

Committee Business

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Sheila Fraser Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada

Louis Ranger Deputy Minister, Department of Transport

Marc Grégoire Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport

Merlin Preuss Director General, Civil Aviation, Department of Transport

Alex Smith Committee Researcher

1 p.m.

Conservative

John Williams Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB

I'm fairly sure that the system has been revamped. So rather than setting our sight at a meeting...because what are we going to study? We have no documentation. I would ask that Treasury Board submit a report of the current policy and we take a look at that, and then if we think it's appropriate, we can have a hearing. But to simply say we'll have a hearing based on...what? What's the point?

1 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy

Well, the point, Mr. Williams.... You've been on this committee a long time and you've seen this procedure in action. This is a system we have in the federal government, and you're quite right, there have been announcements made that they're looking at revamping, but I don't think the system has been revamped at all.

1 p.m.

Conservative

John Williams Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB

I thought it had.

1 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy

No, it hasn't, as far as I'm aware. This system has been around for seven or eight years. It's a system where there is no transparency at all. People have a salary, and then they have another salary that is called “at risk”, and most people earn their “at risk”.

In the private sector if you're at risk, you get fired. This is not well explained to parliamentarians.

On top of that “at-risk” level there is a bonus level.

As a member of the public accounts committee, I certainly think it would be in Parliament's best interest to have a look at this and explain, if nothing else, to parliamentarians exactly how it works. I don't think there would be too many people out there who can explain this. It's well hidden, because when we ask the question to members at that end of the table, basically all we get is mumbling under their breath.

You know and I know that we've asked the question of Mr. Guité and every person who came into this room, “Did you get your at-risk pay?” They replied, “Oh yes”. When asked, “Did you get your big bonus?” they replied, “Oh yes, I got my bonus”. It has no bearing on performance or results.

1 p.m.

Conservative

David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON

On a point of order, we're obviously not going to exhaust all the conversation. We're at 1:05 p.m. and I have other obligations.

1 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy

You have another commitment.

We can come back and review it in September. We'll put it back to the steering committee.

1 p.m.

Conservative

John Williams Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB

What we can do, Mr. Chairman, is get a report from the Treasury Board and then decide if we'll have a meeting.

1 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy

Yes, we'll get a report.

The meeting is adjourned.