Public Accounts Committee on Nov. 23rd, 2009

[Nancy Cheng, Assistant Auditor General, Office of the Auditor General of Canada]

I don't think I have very much to add. I think it's really the comparison when you leave Canada that you recognize how well regarded we are. I remember in one forum—and I don't remember where it was—where the French were complimenting themselves because they actually had a qualified opinion with 12 exceptions that year. We have had a clean opinion for 11 years, and that's quite a comparison, I would say.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you.

[Paul Rochon]

I think it's a number of things. I guess I'd start in terms of investment by pointing out that we will soon have the lowest tax rate on new investment in this country of any G-7 country. We'll have a tax rate that is less than half of the current tax rate in the U.S. and well below the G-7, or the OECD average, for that matter. That's low levels of taxation in the context of a fiscal situation that's much better than in any other country. So if you're making an investment or contemplating an investment, you can do so in Canada without having to worry about the tax situation, for example, that the U.S. is now facing.

Couple that with a very sustainable public pension system and a highly educated workforce and I think basically over the last 15 years Canada has developed many of the attributes that one would want to have to attract investment and to be competitive globally.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you.

I'm going to share my time with my colleague, Mr. Young.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Thank you.

Madam Fraser, how many countries—I think there are 192 at any given time at the United Nations—in the world could claim as high a level of financial competence as Canada has, as reflected in these reports?

[Sheila Fraser]

I would say probably 10 at most.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Are we on a scale within that 10 or just in the top 10?

[Sheila Fraser]

First of all, very few countries produce financial statements on the accrual basis of accounting, which is a much more complete and comprehensive accounting of assets and liabilities. Very few countries receive clean audit opinions. So I would say that there probably would be at most 10. I would say that Canada has certainly been a leader for many years in financial reporting.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Ralston, we've seen in the Province of Ontario how hiring consultants, not following the rules, and getting no results can be a waste of money. Can you explain to the committee how hiring consultants can actually save the federal government money?

[James Ralston]

What I would say is that hiring consultants can provide value for money. There are many cases where you need a specialized expertise for a short period of time, and it simply makes more sense to acquire as much of it as you need rather than to try to put someone on staff permanently who may be underutilized. That, to me, is the prime example of when using a consultant is appropriate, when the specialized expertise and the service are only going to be required for a relatively short period of time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Thank you very much, Mr. Young and Mr. Weston.

Ms. Crombie, you have five minutes. You will be sharing your time, I understand.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

That's correct.

I want to point out as well that the amount that was spent on professional and special services, $9.4 billion, is almost twice what the deficit will be this year, at $5.9 billion. It is an inordinately large number.

Let us look at volume III, at ministers' offices, if we could. Page 10-26 was the first one I looked at. I thought it might be helpful, to keep things in perspective. I don't know whether you've ever given consideration to doing the dollar amount, the variance, and the percentage increase and decrease, which would have made it useful.

Is $59 million on ministers' offices an increase or a decrease over the previous fiscal year?

[Bill Matthews]

I'm not certain. We haven't presented these on a comparative basis. You may remember that this comes out of a commitment made under the Federal Accountability Act to produce these on an annual basis. We would have to check last year's public accounts to see what the change is.

We thought about providing a comparison, but we didn't do it, simply because ministers' portfolios often change, making tracking comparatives very difficult, so we decided to do year over year. Where there has been a change in minister throughout the year, you will see a split between the two ministers, however, to see what they—

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

I did see that. Thank you. That was useful.

I was very interested to see who the large spenders were. Of course, the Minister of Finance I almost predicted; then, of course, the Minister of National Defence, because there would have been travel. Natural Resources, at $2.2 million, seemed high. But then when I got to the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, the $2.2 million number seemed inordinately high for agriculture.

Is there a reason why the Minister of Agriculture's office would spend that amount of money? There wouldn't be any foreign travel, I wouldn't think.

[James Ralston]

I think this is a situation in which the question would best be posed to the organization.

[Bill Matthews]

Let me add that you will see some that may surprise you in their size, when a minister has regional responsibilities included. I believe agriculture has the Canadian Wheat Board as well. You may see increased travel because of it, but I'm speculating.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

I still wouldn't think that would warrant that minister's being in fourth position.

Again, is the $10.5 million spent on foreign junkets and conferences an increase or decrease from the previous year?

[Bill Matthews]

Again I'm not certain. We'd have to check last year's public accounts. We don't do this on a comparative basis.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

In various places you also reference proceeds from the disposal of surplus crown assets. Is it possible for you to provide a list of what sorts of crown assets have been disposed of, what and which assets, and by which departments?

[Bill Matthews]

I can tell you that most crown asset disposals are run through the Department of Public Works. There's a process to go through to dispose of those. Typically it relates to small-dollar equipment types of things. They don't just get rid of them; they try to auction them off or sell them. It's many small items, but I don't have details on which ones. The Department of Public Works runs that process.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

The cumulative total may be quite large as well.

Under Public Appointments Commission, I notice that $689,000 lapsed.

Whatever happened to the public appointments commissioner, and why did that money lapse? It's on page 21-7.

[Bill Matthews]

I can't answer what happened to the public appointments commissioner. I can tell you that the actual versus the appropriation is what was reported, but I can't give you any details on what happened to that office.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness is very salient for us, because we've just reviewed the report. The Auditor General made some rather astounding findings that we were not prepared for a national emergency, and yet $384 million lapsed. Why would this be?

[James Ralston]

I think these questions are going to have to be posed to the organizations.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

I'm going to give some time to Mr. Lee as well.