Evidence of meeting #14 for Public Accounts in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was audits.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
LaVar Payne Conservative Medicine Hat, AB
That's perfect. Thank you.
In 2008-2009 you had 619 contracts for professional services, for a total value of almost $10 million. Of those, apparently 544 were less than $25,000. Could you tell us why you have so many contracts with these professional services?
Auditor General of Canada
For every audit we do, we have advisers, people who are knowledgeable in the area we're looking at. We will usually bring in three people. They will be consulted on the scope of the audit to make sure we're looking at the right issues, and then, as the teams see the initial findings of the audit, to make sure the findings are appropriate and relevant and have been considered. I think that would be the bulk of the contracts that were given. We have that for every single audit, every performance audit and every special examination.
We also have panels of advisers. We have a senior panel that meets twice a year to give us strategic advice when we bring forward major issues. We have a panel on aboriginal issues to help us identify issues. We have an accounting advisory panel that deals with more technical accounting issues. Those two would also be under $25,000.
We then use a number of consultants on various audits, depending on whether there are certain specialty areas. For example, when we did the special examination of Canada Post, we needed someone who had expertise in marketing. We didn't have someone inside. We would bring in a consultant to work with us on the more specialized areas within our audit work.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Thank you.
Madam Auditor, on page 43 you've outlined the positions and the appropriate salaries of the various personnel. One issue I want to get a little more detail on is the performance pay. It's been an issue before this committee. If you don't know the answer, you might get back to us, but what percentage of your personnel would receive performance pay?
Auditor General of Canada
Performance pay is largely available, as you'll see, to what we call the management category, directors and above. For auditors, because of the union contract, only a very few would receive it. I think it's 10% or 15%. For all of the other staff, almost everybody would receive some performance pay.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Is there another level to it?
There used to be performance pay and at-risk pay. There used to be two levels. There's only one level...?
Auditor General of Canada
Other departments have it. We have a different salary structure. We try to be competitive.
I guess you could say that performance pay is the at-risk pay. Depending on the performance of the staff, they are rated as either getting 80%, 100%, 120%, or 120% plus. Depending on the performance during the year, they would receive performance pay. Our performance pay, so that the committee knows, is much lower than what departments give in terms of at-risk or performance pay.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Madam Auditor, could I perhaps get Ms. Sachs to present to the committee an outline of how this is determined and the bottom-line figure, the total figure on performance pay that's paid out at the office?
Assistant Auditor General, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Yes, as for the process itself, we have performance pay based on a rating that each individual is given on people management and product management. Our 200 management-level staff are evaluated by our executive committee. Each one is assigned two ratings, and each of those ratings generates a level of performance pay.
The performance pay on average is for an average performance, which would be doing well and a good performance. I would say 60% to 70% of management would get the average performance pay, which is approximately 7%. Another 25% to 30% will have excelled, and they would get 10% to 12% in performance pay.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Will your people put that in a summary to us with all the totals too, if you don't mind?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Okay then. That concludes the second round. You've heard the evidence. You've read the reports. The next step in this whole process is to put the motion to the committee. I will read the composite motion.
Bloc
Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
Mr. Chairman, do we still have some time for other questions?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
I was going to move to the second part of the meeting at a quarter to—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
The motion to conclude this part of the committee.... Perhaps before I ask that the motion be moved, I should ask the Auditor General if she has any closing comments on this meeting.
Auditor General of Canada
Mr. Chair, I would just like to say that we very much appreciate our relationship with this committee. It is enjoyable working with you. I think a lot of changes and improvements are made in government because of the accountability hearings that are held here. I look forward to working with you all during the coming year.