Public Accounts Committee on May 13th, 2010

[Richard Dicerni]

At the time, it was not at par.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

That may be, but that is important information. You should give it as much importance as the rest.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

I'm going to conclude here. I'm going to move on to Mr. Payne.

Mr. Payne, you have five minutes.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

I pass to Mr. Saxton.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Do you have any questions?

[Andrew Saxton, Conservative, North Vancouver, BC]

No.

Go ahead, please.

[Daryl Kramp, Conservative, Prince Edward—Hastings, ON]

I could ask a question in the meantime, if I may, Mr. Chair.

Of course, from the 2005 report to the 2008, there have been a significant number of advancements and areas of progress. In particular, Industry Canada has really effectively been a leader in a lot of the parliamentary reporting. So once again, as I mentioned to Transport, these two departments have done very well. We commend you on a job well done.

But a job well done is only good if those best practices are shared. Are there any particular activities or any particular instances or strategies you've implemented that we could share, that you could share with this committee, so that we could suggest they be utilized even potentially with other departments, where there could be some symmetry?

[Richard Dicerni]

Our fundamental bureaucratic characteristic of humility would prevent us from going too far down that path. But I'm sure that the people from Treasury Board who monitor these things will be very forthcoming.

[Daryl Kramp, Conservative, Prince Edward—Hastings, ON]

Okay. I'll try one more time.

You've obviously achieved what had been classified as a strong management accountability framework rating, and accountability is what this committee's all about. We're an oversight and accountability committee.

As such, I would like you be a bit more specific, even for fear of bragging or boasting...I'm not too worried about the intent. I would like to hear if you have best practices. I do believe that this committee would love to hear about some of those so we could ensure that not only are you going to maintain the level, but that perhaps the lessons you've learned from some of the weaknesses in the past can then be used positively for other departments.

[Richard Dicerni]

I will let Kelly provide some specifics, but I have a few overall points about accountability in managing a department.

I believe my colleagues would attest to this: that they have a fairly good understanding of what I hold them accountable to do, for when. When I was at Ontario Power Generation for a period of time, I had to produce quarterly financial reports that were released to the public, on the basis of which I had media and analysts' calls. It forces a degree of accountability and transparency that is very important in a company that has such responsibilities.

So in terms of working with my colleagues here, the ADMs, we set out overall performance goals at the beginning of every year, but also what they were going to do for me in the next three months. Because it's great to have long-term plans, but things happen, and we have changes in terms of budgets and ministers.

But what are you going to do for the next three months? What outcomes can I expect? What specifics? Who are you going to meet? Which stakeholders, which president, which company...? When are you going to do what? I think that simple accountability concepts such as these go a long way toward achieving results and having people keep their eye on the ball.

With regard to how this gets translated or cascades into this type of document and this report, I'll pass this on to Kelly.

[Kelly Gillis]

One of the elements we've worked on is what the deputy minister at Transport talked about, which is something technical called the program activity architecture. That's his foundation for reporting. We have worked on making sure that we have a clear description of what program activities we have, based on the framework of how we articulate that story.

We've gone from a 150-page report that was quite long and without concise information on where you can get further information if you have a particular interest in a particular topic. It was difficult to do before, whereas now we have links throughout the document. If you're interested in a particular topic, you can drill down, and we keep that information ever green. We've actually been working with Treasury Board Secretariat. They've asked us to work with them as a case study for guidance when the next round of guidance for departmental performance reports is to go out.

As I said before, we've also gone above and beyond in providing on the lower level online. So if you take some of the sub-activities.... Again, I know it sounds quite technical, but it becomes the work that we do, and how we determine if we're meeting that result or not is available and transparent to all.

We've also included our financial information by program activity in graphical format as well as tabular format, so you can see what we're doing, what results we're trying to attain, and how much we're spending or not spending in that particular area, in quite a concise format, with available references should you want more information in that area.

[Daryl Kramp, Conservative, Prince Edward—Hastings, ON]

That's great. Thank you for those specifics.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Madame Faille, do you have a question?

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Yesterday, I took part in the debate on oil and fairness at the pumps. Right now, we are studying a bill. I believe the Competition Bureau is part of your department.

The question that came to mind has to do with car odometers. Right now, there is talk of pumps that would make it possible to tamper with odometers.

[Richard Dicerni]

It is on the pump.

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Would the current amendment to the legislation, the measures, also apply to car owners? Given that the legislation is not specific, if someone were to tamper with their odometer.... The example given had to do with fairness at the pumps, but I would imagine that the legislation also applies to other sectors.

[Richard Dicerni]

Yes, it targets pumps used to fill up on gas.

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Oh, I see.

[Richard Dicerni]

It does not target—

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

It does not target, but it could—

[Richard Dicerni]

I would have to check—

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

You mention it in your report, and the bill is once again put forward. Personally, I would like more information on that.

[Richard Dicerni]

If you do not mind, I will get the information. The bill targets gas station pumps.

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Under its mandate, the Competition Bureau can lay charges. In order to launch an investigation, there has to be enough complaints and a request from the minister's office.

[Richard Dicerni]

Normally, the minister's office would not request it. It is pretty rare, but the minister's office has, on occasion, assessed a case.