Public Accounts Committee on May 25th, 2010

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Well, again, Mr. Young, the questioner questioned the objectives and certain issues.

Now, I want to point out to Mr. Dewar that this committee does not deal with policy. If it's a policy of government to fund certain aspects of maternal and child health, that is not an issue the Auditor General will comment on, and it's not an issue that will be part of our inquiry.

You've asked Ms. Biggs about funding of a specific NGO, and she has indicated she's not aware of that particular group. I don't know how far we can take this.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I was off that question.

Mr. Chair, if I may, first of all, Mr. Saxton had a point of order and Mr. Young had a point of order. My questions denoted certain recommendations by the Auditor General, and Mr. Saxton is aware of that.

Mr. Kramp asked his whole series of questions on reproductive health. I don't know, Mr. Kramp, and you might correct me on this, but you didn't reference the AG's report in your questions; you asked about maternal health policies. Is that correct, through you, Chair, to Mr. Kramp? It's just to the consistency here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

I will just tell you that we do not get into policy issues in the committee. So I will allow you to continue, but just reference yourself to the performance of the AG.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

You asked about maternal health? That's all I'm asking.

Can I carry on?

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Mr. Dewar, you have 94 seconds.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you for the clarification--I think. I didn't know the gag order extended so far.

Mr. Chair, I just want to know from the head of CIDA if she can tell us, in terms of working with partners on the ground...can she reference any other partner in the G-8 that she is aware of that has a similar point of view as our government when it comes to reproductive health, very specifically that it tags dollars for reproductive health? Is there any other partner that you are aware of that does that?

[Margaret Biggs]

I don't have that information.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Was it a recommendation--

[Margaret Biggs]

I don't know if I agree with the characterization that you're indicating, though. I'm not sure quite what you are referring to.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I'm just looking at our partners--the U.K., the U.S., France, and others--who have just funded programs like the Global Fund, where the previous U.S. administration put tags on dollars to the Global Fund that said that certain moneys wouldn't go to certain programs in reproductive health.

So my question, through the chair to you, is this. Are you aware of any other partner that we're working with on the ground, and G-8 partners, who use that form of funding when it comes to reproductive health?

[Margaret Biggs]

Chair, maybe I could clarify. The Government of Canada and CIDA are major contributors to the Global Fund, as an example, and we do not put any caveats or earmarks on that funding, nor will the government do so in the future. We haven't done it and I don't think we will be doing it.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Mr. Shipley, four minutes.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Thank you for coming out and being a part of this.

Clearly, as we went through the December report, these are significant issues for Canada. I think one of the things that has been good, actually, is that the committee asked you to come back five months later. We have seen significant changes, and I want to congratulate you for making those happen. I think one of the things we are seeing is that if you have ineffective strategies, where you try to be everything to everyone, with exception, I suspect--but not many--it fails. That seems to have been the case. Now what I think we're trying to do is refocus around a business process, quite honestly, for not only a competitive business process but your application process times, which were consistently raised.

I want to be clear, though. As we move forward, we are basically starting to decentralize our issues so that we can be more focused in terms of direction, guidance. Can you give us some sort of a comment as to whether you are satisfied? We need to be sure, if there needs to be more direction, a mandate, to be effective. Are you satisfied that you've got that type of direction and mandate to be an effective agency?

[Margaret Biggs]

Yes, I am.

Just further to your comments, I think there was criticism of CIDA in the past. The Auditor General made the comment, but the OECD did a peer review in 2007 of CIDA and it said CIDA was spread too thin, as you indicated. Now we have a much greater degree of focus within the agency and down into our programming. So I think those corrective measures have been taken. I wouldn't take from that, though, that everything CIDA did in the past was necessarily a failure. I just think we can have much stronger results if we are able to really zero in on where we can add the greatest value.

So I think we now have clarity on what it is we're going to focus on, where we're going to focus. We are working on much speedier, streamlined business processes so that we can be more responsive on the ground. We are also taking action, beginning this summer, to move more of our staff into the field, so that we can again be more effective on the ground. I do believe that all the major steps that one would hope for an agency like CIDA, as indicated by the OECD and again confirmed by the Auditor General, are now in place. We just have to follow through on them, sir.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Do you see that as a bit of a moving target? Because this is a process where nothing around here or anywhere in business actually ever stays constant, do you see the upgrading, the policy, and the communications with the minister as ongoing? My next question would have been, if you'd needed something else in order to be more effective, what would it be?

[Margaret Biggs]

I do believe that to be effective, and as the Auditor General's report indicates, development is a long-term process. It's not something you can stop and start. It doesn't happen in a couple of days or weeks or even a couple of years. So you do need to stay with it and you do need to follow through on what it is you're looking to do.

Now that we have our frameworks in place, I believe it's important to follow through on those.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Thank you.

One of the things we often hear about is how somebody got a grant, or somebody new was getting it before but now they aren't, or somebody else who's new is getting it and they've never had it before. Do you see grants actually becoming a form of sustainable funding for any organization, or do you see it as important that they actually meet the mandate of the particular agency, or it may be of the government, that it is an application that goes forward and in competition with others in terms of being able to provide a service? Is that how it should be, or is there a different way of doing it?

[Margaret Biggs]

Yes, I would agree with you, sir.

In our country programs we would look to do programming that aligns very specifically with the objectives and the targets, results that we've identified in a country to achieve, and then we would pick the very best means we can to achieve those ends.

In terms of our Canadian partnership programming, again, we get numerous applications. They are reviewed on their merits and decisions are made on that basis.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Thank you, Mr. Shipley.

The last questioner is Monsieur Dion pour quatre minutes.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Madame Biggs, you said the process of decentralization that is so needed is happening now. I would like to invite you to describe it more concretely to the committee, and I will choose the example Mr. Kramp used in his questions to you, child and maternal health.

Assume a country asks CIDA to help the country build safe abortion services. Will the staff on the ground in that country have the latitude to say yes to this request under the new system?

[Margaret Biggs]

In our country programs we have identified children and youth as a thematic area of focus in a number of our 20 countries of focus, and within that, maternal and child health specifically are areas of focus. We would primarily be focusing on building the country systems required to deliver the kinds of programs that I indicated would be important on the ground.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Yes, but the country is asking you specifically to make it safer, saying that many women are dying because the way abortions are done there is not safe at all. Will the staff on the ground have the ability to say yes?

[Andrew Saxton, Conservative, North Vancouver, BC]

Mr. Chair, it's a hypothetical question and it's not relevant to the discussion this morning. I think it's out of order.