Madame Faille.
Evidence of meeting #17 for Public Accounts in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was system.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #17 for Public Accounts in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was system.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:50 a.m.
Bloc
Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I actually have questions for Ms. Fraser.
First, Mr. Chair, I would like from each department in front of us... In the report of the Auditor General, we can see that several investment projects are currently planned. I would like to see a chart with all the planned investment projects for each department. I would also like to know if business cases were done for each of those projects and who got that mandate. I will have more specific questions to put to the officials of each department.
First, for the RCMP, what is the name of the system that manages the Canadian Firearms Registry?
June 1st, 2010 / 9:55 a.m.
Brendan Dunne Director General, Information Management and Information Technology (IM/IT) Business Solutions, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
It's the Canadian firearms information system.
9:55 a.m.
Bloc
Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
On top of the documents I just asked for, could you please table a copy of the program and system evaluation? On several occasions, department officials have made statements about the system's efficiency, and there was a reference to it in the media. This committee looks at the risks assessment and the evaluation of various programs. I would like to know if it is possible to obtain a copy of the evaluation of this particular system. This document already exists.
As for the Auditor General...
Yes?
9:55 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Before we go any further--let's not leave this question dangling--you asked for an evaluation, but there's no indication that such an evaluation exists. I think you're going to have to clarify that issue.
9:55 a.m.
Bloc
Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
Could you tell me if an evaluation for this program exists?
9:55 a.m.
Chief Information Officer, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
An evaluation of the IT systems for the program? I'm not aware of an evaluation. If there is one, I can certainly get it to you.
9:55 a.m.
Bloc
Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
Could you check with the department if the program and system evaluations exist? They were mentioned several times. You are here to talk to us about IT systems. I want to make sure that this system was duly evaluated.
9:55 a.m.
Chief Information Officer, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
I'm not aware if there was an evaluation of the--
9:55 a.m.
Bloc
Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
Check with the department and send the answer to the committee.
Thank you.
9:55 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Just to clarify that issue, I want to make it absolutely clear that Mr. Buckle is going to determine whether or not there's been an evaluation of the present IT platform system.
And if that evaluation has been done recently, then you will provide this committee with a copy. Is that right?
9:55 a.m.
Bloc
Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
Thank you very much.
Madam Fraser, I listened to the speeches of the IT officials. I understand your audit but I want to check one thing. You are not giving some departments a blank cheque so that they can update their IT systems.
What would you like these departments to do before they start spending the money? Would you expect that business cases be done? Would you like that to be done before a strategy is chosen?
9:55 a.m.
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Yes, absolutely. Mr. Chair, business cases must be done. Also, different options must be analyzed. The secretary mentioned it. This is not just about replacing existing systems. Several of them are a few decades old. Maybe there are more effective and efficient ways to do the same work or to get the same results. This is a lot more than simply replacing one system by an equivalent system. The processes must be examined. Since we are talking of an expense of several million dollars, I think this is a good opportunity to take the time to do things well.
9:55 a.m.
Bloc
Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
Okay, thank you. This justifies the information request I made earlier.
Madam d'Auray, in 2007 you put in place a policy on project management. The goal was to properly manage the IT projects. The various departments have been criticized over the past few years. They were scrutinized by the Auditor General. On several occasions, department officials have told us that the policies were too hard to follow and that not enforcing them all was a way to limit costs. Is that the case currently?
9:55 a.m.
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
Mr. Chair, we have two major policies on the management of IT investments. One concerns investment management and planning, and the other project management. I think the work we have done—and I will ask Ms. Charette to give more detail—with the departments to make sure they have project management capacity follows from an audit made by the Office of the Auditor General in 2006. You mentioned that audit.
10 a.m.
Bloc
Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
I understand the policy details. It is not the first time you appear here to talk to us about them. But today, IT directors are here. I would like you to tell us if each department has strictly followed that policy or if they have strayed from it in some situations.
10 a.m.
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
I will ask Ms. Charette to give you a more specific answer.
10 a.m.
Bloc
Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
You could follow the example of the Canada Revenue Agency. Has the agency upheld to the letter each of these projects?
10 a.m.
Corinne Charette Chief Information Officer, Treasury Board Secretariat
The purpose of our policies, be they on project management or on other issues, is to provide the best practices and the necessary direction to departments. It is up to the departments to capture, apply and implement them. I must say that these policies are not difficult to follow and that my colleagues are very rigorous and methodical in applying them.
We are not here to conduct an exhaustive review, but under our annual accountability and evaluation process, we review the indicators we asked the departments to provide to ensure that they did indeed follow the various policies.
10 a.m.
Bloc
Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
Mr. Chairman, I also asked the question of the Canada Revenue Agency. Can the agency's representatives at least answer the question?
10 a.m.
Assistant Commissioner and Chief Information Officer, Information Technology Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
Certainly.
You'll note there were no recommendations for the Canada Revenue Agency in the AG's report. This is because we did follow up rather rigorously. We have a very rigorous, strict program on assuring that the sustainability of all infrastructure, hardware and software, is within its expected life cycle and that we do the annual refresh on our inventory of applications to track which ones are in need of sustainability investment. As well, we have plans for each line of business as to what applications need that investment, and we work with the CFO internally to try to fund these largely from within the agency.
In the case of the individual benefits systems, we work with central agencies to try to find funding to take on those larger challenges.
10 a.m.
Liberal