Public Accounts Committee on Dec. 9th, 2013

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Do you have a timeframe for when that will be in place?

[Lesley Soper]

It's under way now.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

It's under way. It's happening. Okay.

Is there a reason there was little progress on lookouts between 2007 and now? That would be between the last time the Auditor General's office looked at it and the current time.

[Martin Bolduc]

We did focus on the recommendations that came out of the 2007 report from the Auditor General. In fact, as I mentioned earlier, our national targeting centre is a result of that report.

There was a lot of work being done, but we did realize we needed to be more rigorous about our approach on lookouts. That's how we came up with an action plan that essentially was recognized by the Office of the Auditor General.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Ms. Loschiuk, the office has raised many concerns about border security. Of course, some problems still persist, and I'm glad to see there should be some progress on those soon.

Did the office identify any issues or concerns with the cuts that have happened at CBSA, which will be totalling $143 million by 2015? Was anything looked at to see what kind of impact that will have on our border services?

[Wendy Loschiuk]

No, Mr. Chair, we didn't look at the cuts. We looked at what was happening currently at the border and the information that was available to us for the past couple of years.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Okay. Thank you very much.

I blew through my questions too fast. That very, very rarely happens.

Moving on to air passengers, it's actually shocking that for 95% of air passengers arriving there's some missing data. Why does that problem happen?

[Wendy Loschiuk]

Well, that's probably a very good question to ask Canada Border Services Agency, which is dealing with the airlines. I don't know that we have a lot of information on why it's happening.

I will ask my colleague, Nick, if he has anything to add on that.

[Nicholas Swales]

Not really, in terms of the details of why; part of what we were seeing was that as a result of the problems with the performance measure the agency was using, they weren't understanding some of the issues with the granularity of the information that would be necessary for a dialogue with the airlines on that question.

[A voice]

Monsieur Bolduc.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Since you suggest it, I'll pass that to Mr. Bolduc.

[Martin Bolduc]

The 95% that was raised has to do with the risk assessment that is done on PNR. When we do targeting on an air passenger, we use two types of information: API, advanced passenger information, and PNR. API is legislated. Airlines have to provide the CBSA with API information. PNR is not. PNR information is provided by airlines when they collect it and when they get it.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Is that done on a voluntary basis?

[Martin Bolduc]

It's on a voluntary basis, but we have engaged the airlines in a solid way to improve the quality of information as well as the delivery of information from airlines moving forward. I have to say we've seen progress since the set-up of that working group.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

Very good. Thank you.

That takes us over to Mr. Hayes, who now has the floor.

[Bryan Hayes, Conservative, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

For the assistant Auditor General, what were your findings regarding identifying appropriate risks and threats, consultation with partners on shared risks, and the progress of the agency to date specific to those? Could you speak specifically to Canada Border Services Agency, please?

[Wendy Loschiuk]

Mr. Chair, we found on the CBSA side that they did have a risk assessment integrated plan in place, and they were working with other agencies. We have it in our report, I believe, in paragraphs 5.62, 5.63, and 5.64. We found that they've been doing a pretty good job in that area.

[Bryan Hayes, Conservative, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Did you find that the risks identified by the agency were definitely aligned with the threats and priorities identified by the Government of Canada?

[Wendy Loschiuk]

We did.

[Bryan Hayes, Conservative, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Regarding the consultation process, the agency consulted with federal partners to consider the shared risks. Are you satisfied with the consultation process?

[Wendy Loschiuk]

We looked to see if they had done it, and we saw that they had done it.

[Bryan Hayes, Conservative, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Very good.

Within your report, paragraph 5.14 mentions that there's a suite of enforcement systems. I would suggest that's absolutely the case. I'm wondering if since 2007 there has been a new system added to the suite of enforcement systems.

[Wendy Loschiuk]

Mr. Chair, in this case, we looked only at the controls that are in place at the border, so really, I can only speak to those five that we list in paragraph 5.17 for CBSA and then the ones that we looked at for the RCMP.

[Bryan Hayes, Conservative, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

I noticed within your report there was mention made of how in 2010 the government developed Canada's strategy to combat human smuggling and illegal migration. In 2011, you made mention of the beyond the border action plan. In 2012, there was the counterterrorism strategy, so it appears that certainly a number of good things have happened.

I'm going to put this question to Mr. Bolduc. You mentioned the beyond the border action plan and specifically this new in-out. I want to get a sense of the beyond the border action plan. I believe this was a three-year plan, and I believe we're at the end of two years. Could you touch on the beyond the border action plan and what good things are coming out of that in terms of illegal entry into Canada, and what is still to come out of that action plan that will be beneficial in this area?