That's probably natural justice, if you will. The funny thing is that I was talking to Mr. Albas trying to save us a few minutes later on, and I blew it by not monitoring the time.
Colleagues, that now completes our usual rotation. I've done some quiet consultation and my sense is that the committee is satisfied that we have thoroughly drilled down here on what we need to do today. If I might, I have just a couple of closing remarks, then we will thank the Auditor General, and as agreed to previously, we will move into a business meeting to plan future work.
First, the Senate has been mentioned a couple of times. I don't want to get into it except to say that I would hope Canadians would reflect on the fact that your budget costs us almost $80 million a year and the Senate costs us almost $100 million. They should ask themselves which one is giving them real value for money.
Next, you mentioned the unsatisfactory implementation, and I'm glad you did. As the longest-serving member on this committee, that's the one that has always personally driven me the craziest to see in Auditor General reports, and in some cases multiple Auditor General reports, where there were previous audits done, the same thing said, “Yes, we agree with the Auditor General; wonderful recommendations, of course we're going to do it.” But then it's not done, time after time after time.
If they aren't being treated as a priority by this committee, then quite frankly most of the work we're doing doesn't mean anything. That's where the real issue is. We're trying to change people's behaviour and what they consider to be priorities in the course of their work. If we're not standing on that....
I hearken back to former PC member John Williams, one of my predecessors and possibly one of the longest-serving chairs of this committee in the House of Commons. John Williams always said, and I adopted it when I became chair, that the second a deputy minister realizes they've been called in front of the public accounts committee to have a public hearing, it should ruin their entire week. To me, that speaks very clearly to the kind of work that's being done, to the issues that you deal with, and to how effective we can be, or not be, in assisting in making sure that we're getting the right kind of government we want. That's non-partisan. Whomever the government of the day is, that's the way we function.
On a serious matter now, for a number of years you've been mentioning that the targets for public hearings are not being met. While that isn't everything, it's a crucial part. I was glad to hear you explain the added benefit of having a public hearing on top of your reports. There is a figure of a 65% target in terms of the number of public hearings that we would hear on chapters. We met 24%. Either the 65% is unreasonable and there is something wrong with that, in which case, fine, let's look at it, or there is something wrong with the 24% part. But the fact that there is so much disparity points to a problem. Given the importance of the work of this committee, as the premier oversight committee of Parliament, I would just urge all colleagues and this committee to take this seriously and to do something about it so that a year from now we can have a different result.
The last thing I want to say is that from my experience in doing quite a number now of international election observation missions, in a parliamentary democracy the first thing that people need and see in terms of democracy is a free and fair election that reflects the political will of the people who are voting. That is the absolute priority. I've been in countries when there were elections where that wasn't the case. If you don't have that, you have nothing.
Once you achieve that in new and emerging democracies, my experience, Mr. Ferguson, is that the second thing that's needed, as a country is trying to become a fully modern, developed, accountable democracy, is the implementation and the institution of the office of the auditor general, with its independence absolutely ensured and vital funds provided for that work to be done.
The first thing they ask when these countries are trying to emerge into a democracy is whether they can get a fair election to elect the people who they want to give the power to. Once that's in place, the second most important thing, to make sure the money that taxpayers are paying isn't stolen, is to get an independent auditor general system in place matched up with a public accounts committee that works and makes sure there's enough money there.
I say that by way of underscoring the importance of the work you and your staff do. All of us say this because we hear it. It's so important. You do amazing work. In terms of your predecessor, there ought to be a monument built to her. You're well on your way to getting a monument right beside her. We do look to you and your office to provide that purity of democracy that we're so proud of and makes us one of the leading democracies. We can never thank you enough and support you enough. We'll hold you to account as we're all held to account. The work that your office does—and you personally, sir, as a relatively new Auditor General—is impeccable. I want to tell you how proud we are as members of this committee in working with you and your staff. We want to reflect to you how much Canadian people appreciate and respect the work that your office does and its importance to our democracy.
Thank you so much for all that you do.
With that we we will wrap up and we will move into a business meeting.
I have to do a couple of quick votes to make us all legal.
AUDITOR GENERAL
Vote 1—Program expenditures..........$68,269,099
(Vote 1 agreed to)
Shall the chair report the main estimates, 2015-16, to the House?
