Public Accounts Committee on Nov. 27th, 2013

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Thank you for that.

On what the Auditor General said clarifying the difference between what the agency was reporting on and the improvements that need to happen in those two areas, I certainly am happy that CBSA has recognized that and is working to implement that.

Has the RCMP also said it will work on the recommendations you've presented?

[Michael Ferguson]

I believe, in all of the recommendations we have made, the appropriate agencies have said they agree with our recommendations.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

Thank you.

Colleagues, with that, the formal round of questioning expires. It's my understanding that there has been consultation among the leads of the three parties and there is an agreement that we will begin repeating the list of questioners again, to take us up to the conclusion of our meeting.

I see there's agreement to proceed in that fashion; therefore we will. Thank you.

Now we go back over to Mr. Woodworth. You're up again, sir.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'll go back to chapter 4, if I may, and start back at the question of investigations. In addition to wanting a very vigilant food recall investigation system, and in addition to wanting to be assured that illnesses are effectively contained by food recall investigations, the public wants these investigations to be done in a timely way.

I wonder if you can tell us what your examination revealed about how timely the investigations are in cases where food recall is involved.

[Michael Ferguson]

We found that investigations by the Canadian Food Inspection Agency are done appropriately and are done within the timelines it has established.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

In fact, as I understand it, 93% of these investigations are at least commenced within 24 hours of the triggering event. Is that correct?

[Michael Ferguson]

Could you refer me to a paragraph?

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

I'm looking at page 11 of your report, paragraph 4.24.

[Michael Ferguson]

Yes, that's right.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

The same paragraph, if I am reading it correctly, also indicates that the decision to issue a recall in 83% of those cases was made within eight days of the initial trigger. Am I reading that correctly?

[Michael Ferguson]

Yes, that's right.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

My impression from reading that paragraph is that you found that to be a suitable and appropriate timeline. Is that correct?

[Michael Ferguson]

Again, certainly the work they do on the investigations of these issues, we found to be appropriate.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Of course the other thing the public is concerned about is that people want to be warned if there is a problem. I wonder what your examination revealed about how quickly CFIA issues warnings in relation to food recalls.

[John Affleck]

Yes, Mr. Chair, that was also an area where they did that quickly. Of the 59 recalls, 28 of them required a public warning and those warnings were all done within a 24-hour period.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Very good, that's excellent news.

I suppose the bottom line with these recalls is that the public wants to be assured that in fact the offending goods are removed in an effective and timely way. Does the CFIA have a means of verifying that in fact offending products are removed in the course of a recall?

[John Affleck]

Mr. Chair, CFIA does indeed carry out all its checks and this is done with a random sampling plan. We did note in the chapter, however, that 16% of these did not meet their time standards. We followed up with each of these files and found there were particular reasons for that. We also note in that paragraph, I believe it's paragraph 35, that the CFIA itself did not know whether it was doing that. It was only through the course of our audit work that we were able to demonstrate to the agency that it was being done.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Very good. Now I understand that Health Canada has a role to play. Am I right that Health Canada has an independent risk assessment capacity that is involved in these food recalls?

[John Affleck]

Yes, that is correct.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

I have the impression that Health Canada's risk assessments are, in addition to being independent, very timely and meet the needs on a more or less prompt or rapid basis. Is that correct?

[John Affleck]

That is correct. The risk assessment determines the likelihood of harm due to exposure to a hazardous substance, and it's a very important input in issuing a recall. Health Canada was consistent with international principles and met its eight-hour timeframe.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Those international principles actually require a pretty good degree of scientific rigour in that testing, and Health Canada does come up with that scientific rigour. Is that correct?

[John Affleck]

That is correct.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

I want to go back to another point that was raised in earlier questioning about the ICS, the incident command system.

As I understand it, the Weatherill report made its recommendations in July 2009, and that CFIA indicated by December 2011 that those recommendations, including the ICS recommendation, had been completed.

Is that in accord with your understanding?