—but not on this.
Evidence of meeting #104 for Public Accounts in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was deputy.
A video is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #104 for Public Accounts in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was deputy.
A video is available from Parliament.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC
Precisely. She came on the chapter that concerns her mandate, meaning the launch and afterwards, and what corrective measures she's putting forward. It's not about what happened before, which is the chapter that this current report is about.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC
Am I missing something? Isn't what the report was all about this time the underlying issues that led to the failure of Phoenix?
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Yes, that's exactly it—the underlying issues that led to the Phoenix failure.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC
That's what it was. Yes, exactly, so this is not—
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
And it's this chapter as well. In fact, I think that most of what the Auditor General says in this report is concerning Phoenix.
I have Mr. McCauley and, I think, Mr. Christopherson.
Go ahead, Mr. McCauley.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Just briefly, she was there before the second rollout. She should also, I would assume, at that level, have done some research into what happened beforehand, and she can perhaps answer some of the questions.
I think the cultural issues the AG was referring to also cover some of the issues relating to why it has taken two years to perhaps stabilize it. This is not about a Tory versus Grit type of thing, but about how the culture of the executives led to it still being an issue two years later.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
As you know, I've been away; I'm just catching up.
Can I ask what the work plan is currently for the 14th, the 19th, and the 21st?
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
The 14th currently is to call the minister of the department dealing with Phoenix to be here. On the 19th, we were hoping to invite former deputy ministers, who we've found out are unavailable, some not even in the country. On the 21st, we have no meeting.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
5:15 p.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Therefore we run the risk that if we don't have the deputy on the 14th, then we can't necessarily have them on the 19th, and therefore we might not have them.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Again, I wasn't here in the earlier days. I may sound like it, but I'm not being as pushy as I usually am in terms of my opinion.
I could live with our going ahead with the Phoenix chapter, just because we shouldn't lose it. I think your points are well taken, Chair. This affects a lot of people. They don't want us pushing that off, so I don't think we lose a lot....
My preference would be to make the switch, and maybe we could ask the deputy if they could help us out and make that switch. That would allow us to have the best process, which is that immediately following the Clerk—and we thank you for being here today, sir—we would have the AG to respond. That would be ideal.
Given the importance of it, Chair, especially with the way you framed it, if we can't get them here for the 19th, then I would suggest that maybe we'd be okay to stay with the 14th, but let's be sure we can get the—
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Let me just remind you that we are not certain that the AG is available on the 14th. It doesn't always work to phone the AG and say, “Be here.” We work around his schedule as well. That's part of the problem of scheduling some of these meetings.
We were going to have Phoenix on the 7th, but—
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
—because of the provincial election, we decided that if we wanted it before the break of summer, we wouldn't do it on the 7th, but on the 14th. They've accepted that. We do not know if the AG is available on the 14th.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC
Absolutely, I agree, but on a point of clarification, the people we were inviting on the 19th were the former deputy ministers. It has nothing to do with the Clerk.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Let's clear the 19th and put the AG in there, assuming the AG is available.
5:15 p.m.
An hon. member
On the 14th.