Mr. Chair, something you need to understand when you're dealing with pensions is that, as Mr. Huppé explained earlier on, at a point in time you predict what the cash flows are going to be. Based on how many people are in a plan, when they are going to retire, and what their salaries were, the actuaries can put together an estimate of how much cash is going to be paid out over the next 50 or 70 years, or whatever. That estimate of cash doesn't change no matter what the discount rate is. That estimate of cash is the estimate of cash.
When you then say we're paying these amounts of money out over many years, how much is that worth today? That's when you have to decide what discount rate you use. There can be many different discount rates. The discount rate we've been talking about is a discount rate for accounting purposes, and the accounting standards say for accounting purposes here is how you set the discount rate.
When you're talking about cashing out, you are talking about a solvency basis, essentially. If everybody decided today to cash out, you would use a different discount rate, because you're changing the cash flow. Would people cashing out today use a different discount rate? Yes, they would, but that's not the assumption that is used for accounting and to set the discount rate for accounting.