Again I have to say that we haven't looked at any of these systems individually, so I can't tell you what stage they are at, or with what types of issues they are struggling. One of the things we identified in Phoenix, though, was that all of the information about how that project was progressing was going up through the project managers.
There was no way for the deputy minister or other people to get information from other, outside sources to say whether the project was operating as it should. That's something that is critical to have in place, to ensure that information.
Remember the Gartner report, for example, which was done before Phoenix was put in place. That report identified a number of issues and things that should have been dealt with, but the report went back through the project managers. If that report had a way to go to an oversight committee, directly to the deputy minister or somewhere else, perhaps that would have been enough to see that this system wasn't going to work. There were people who had identified the problems that Phoenix was going to bring, but the only way that information got considered was through the people who were responsible for the project.