You still have a minute.
Evidence of meeting #42 for Public Accounts in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was initiatives.
A video is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #42 for Public Accounts in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was initiatives.
A video is available from Parliament.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON
Overall, Mr. Brown, the Auditor General said that departments and agencies face challenges in completing a number of initiatives, and they could not demonstrate that they had improved security at Canada's borders. When do you think all of these initiatives will get completely implemented? Then you can say to us, “Look. We have achieved what we aimed at.”
4:55 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Since some of those decisions are certainly outside of my remit, and some of them are legislative, I'm not going to presume when Parliament's going to deal with the entry/exit legislation or the preclearance legislation, for example.
The objective for public servants is to have the initiative completed by 2016-17. That's when the initiative is supposed to come to an end. In terms of demonstrating to Canadians more effectively the impact and results, I hope we have progress to show you when we present our revised performance frameworks.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON
You mentioned Parliament and the legislation twice. That's the only piece that I see that affects $70 million of the $1.1 billion. Is there anything else that is being affected due to the legislation not being passed?
4:55 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
I guess I would say it would be negotiations with the EU. There may be others. I don't have a comprehensive list.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes
Thank you very much.
Mr. Christopherson, it's your turn again.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Great. Thank you, Chair.
To pick up where I was, I will come back to Mr. Brown, but I have just a quick comment.
I know there are Treasury Board folks here today. They know that Wednesday is not going to be a good day for them. It will be interesting to see how that goes, because simple answers are not going to suffice. We're going to want some pretty exhaustive responses to these issues, because a lot of them go right back to them.
The other thing I wanted to say was that I really like what we're hearing. I will give Mr. Brown a chance to close off my questioning, because I really liked what he said about the engagement and the ongoing aspect of it.
The issue of “one and done” is something we've dealt with many times here, the idea that as long as people can get through the public hearing, they're safe—one and done—and they don't ever have to worry about it again. We have measures in place to make sure that's not quite so easy to do anymore, and they're beginning to understand that.
One of the things we should state is the possibility that if everybody suddenly has gotten religion on this and is coming in saying all the right things, then it behooves us to then ask the Auditor General to go back in or to put in our own requirements for responses to see how they're doing, to make sure that it's not just words, and then separate out those who have not yet drunk the Kool-Aid that we want them to drink from those who have, those who are only saying they did and are not actually making changes.
This is serious stuff. This committee is not going anywhere until the next election. We're going to be continuing to pursue this issue of data and of making sure that it's collected properly, that it's up to date, and that it's analyzed in a way that actually improves things. We're going to be like a dog with a bone on this going forward.
That being said, Mr. Brown, I give you the opportunity to close off my remarks.
5 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
That's quite a tall order, sir.
Briefly, the proof will be in the pudding. Second, I think the point of a dialogue is that while I think the Auditor General would be pleased if we got it completely right the first time, I don't think he expects us to. I think we all expect the OAG to pay us a visit in the years ahead on this. I don't think anyone is under any illusions.
I think that at least three of us—and I won't speak for the other departments that aren't here—are in the cycle of appointment and we are fully aware that we can expect to be back here talking about these kinds of things.
He's newer than I am. I've been on the job for eight or nine months, and you've been on the job for only two or three, right?
5 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
I think we expect or fully understand that we will be back here talking about these things.
I also think that we fully expect that you will find shortcomings. I have been thinking about outcome measurement for a long time. This is very tough stuff. Part of it is getting started and trying it and improving it as you go along. I think this was an effort. The horizontal report was unusual. There were challenges. The AG has identified them, and we have lots to work with to improve it.
5 p.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes
Thank you very much.
Mr. Maloney, you have five minutes.
5 p.m.
Liberal
James Maloney Liberal Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Mr. Brown, to pick up on your point about the cycle of appointments, I've only been involved with this committee for slightly over an hour. I'm new to this issue, but I'm intrigued by some of the things I've heard today, so forgive me if some of my questions are too basic.
I want to ask some questions about the trusted trader program. I'm familiar with the NEXUS program, but I'd like to know specifically how the trusted trader program works. Is it done by businesses or by industry, for starters? If I'm a trucking company in Mississauga and I'm shipping freight across the border on a regular basis, one day I may be shipping widgets, the next day something completely different, is the criteria for approval and membership in the program determined on my credibility, or is there some measure with respect to the product I may be carrying from time to time?
5 p.m.
Vice-President, Programs Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
If I may, thank you for the question.
It's about ensuring security of all the trade-chain partners, the importer, the trucking company, and the driver in the cab. Once we have vetted all of those, then you get access to the expedited lane. When we make reference to a FAST driver, it's the equivalent, if you will, of our NEXUS program. The person has been vetted by us. That's the whole chain, if you want.
5 p.m.
Liberal
James Maloney Liberal Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON
So it's gauged by the cargo as well as the organization.
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Vice-President, Programs Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
Not necessarily by the cargo.
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Liberal
James Maloney Liberal Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON
Okay, but does the carrier also have to be part of the program—
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Liberal
5 p.m.
Liberal
James Maloney Liberal Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON
Okay.
Do you need, then, corresponding approval on the U.S. side? A lot of these trucking companies use that example. They're picking up loads and taking them to the States, and to make it more profitable, they'll try to pick up a load on the other side to bring back.
I assume there's a similar process on the American side.