Evidence of meeting #51 for Public Accounts in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was audits.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Michael Ferguson  Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Michel Marcotte

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Good afternoon, everyone. This is meeting number 51 of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, Wednesday, April 5, 2017.

I will remind everyone that we are televised today, so we should mute our telephones and communications devices. I will also mention to our viewers, our audience, and our guests today that bells are ringing, and we will be interrupted. In about 20 minutes, we will have to leave and go for a vote.

Today, we're holding a hearing on the government's main estimates for the years 2017-18, vote 1 under the Office of the Auditor General. As well, we're considering the report on plans and priorities for the years 2017-18 of the Office of the Auditor General, and finally, the performance report of the Office of the Auditor General for the years 2015-16.

We're joined by officials of the Office of the Auditor General, Michael Ferguson, our Auditor General; Sylvain Ricard, assistant auditor general, corporate services, and chief financial officer; Susan Seally, principal, human resources; and Ronald Bergin, principal, strategic planning.

I will invite you to give us your statements. I'm told by the clerk that I need unanimous consent to begin, and I see that we have that. We welcome you and your statement today, sir.

3:45 p.m.

Michael Ferguson Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, we're pleased to have this opportunity to discuss our office's 2015-16 performance report and our 2017-18 departmental plan.

As the legislative auditor of the federal government and the three territories, we provide independent and objective assurance, advice, and information about government financial statements and the management of government programs. The Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development is responsible for environmental and sustainable development issues that fall under our mandate.

We conduct all our audits in accordance with Canadian auditing standards. Our audits and our system of quality control are subject to internal practice reviews and independent external reviews to provide assurance that you can rely on the quality of our work.

In addition to our audit work, we help to advance legislative audit methodology, accounting and auditing standards, and best practices. We also work internationally to support projects funded by Global Affairs Canada, build professional capacities, share knowledge, and promote better-managed and accountable international institutions.

As reflected in our financial statements, our net cost of operations was $90.7 million in the 2015-16 fiscal year, of which $13 million was services provided without charge by other government organizations. The balance was provided through the main estimates, including the $68.3 million that was approved under vote 1.

We had a budget of 557 full-time equivalent employees, and employed the equivalent of 546 full-time employees. With these resources we delivered 88 financial audits, four special examinations, 17 performance audits, and the audit of senators' expenses. This represents all planned audit work, except for one special examination that we delayed.

In our 2015-16 performance report, we note that parliamentary committees reviewed 55% of our performance audits. This number represents an increase from 44% in the 2014-15 fiscal year, although it's below our target of 65%. In total, we participated in 20 parliamentary committee hearings and briefings on our audit work.

Audit committee chairs and senior managers of the organizations for which we perform financial statement audits continue to believe that our audits are understandable, fair and timely, and that the audits add value. For senior managers in the organizations that are the subject of our performance audits, results are below our target. To address the concerns they raised, we're now communicating our findings and recommendations earlier in the audit process.

Our measures of organizational performance remain generally positive. In particular, our practice reviews, which serve as a key quality control in our audit methodology, found that our audit reports were appropriate and supported by proper evidence. Our 2015-16 performance report identifies several indicators of the impact of our work, along with measures of our operational performance, which are attached to this statement as appendix A.

Turning now to our 2017-18 departmental plan, our strategic framework identifies a number of client, operational, and people management objectives that we use to manage the office and to direct our continuous improvement efforts. In the 2017-18 fiscal year, we will focus on the following three priorities.

First, to develop and maintain a skilled, engaged, and bilingual workforce, we'll continue to support our audit managers as they adopt their new roles and responsibilities. We'll closely monitor the development and execution of second-language learning plans, and our employees’ professional development activities.

Second, we want to maximize the value and impact of our audit work. To do this, we'll improve how we scope and report our special examinations. We'll review some of our financial audits to ensure that we provide value as efficiently as possible. We'll focus on the financial control environment in the government, particularly in our annual audit of the Government of Canada’s consolidated financial statements.

Third, to improve the governance and management of our office, we'll review the federal legislative, regulatory, and policy requirements to ensure we can demonstrate our compliance. We'll also renew our information technology and physical security risk assessments.

For the 2017-18 fiscal year, the program expenditures of the Office of the Auditor General under vote 1 for this committee to consider reporting to the House is $68.3 million. Our planned number of full-time equivalent employees is 560. With the resources allotted to us we expect to complete more than 85 financial audits, 24 performance audits, and nine special examinations.

In conclusion, Mr. Chair, my staff and I look forward to continuing to serve Parliament with products of the highest quality and value in the coming year. We thank you for your ongoing support of our work. We would be pleased to answer your questions.

Thank you.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thank you very much, sir.

I'm at the disposal of the committee. We have probably 23 minutes. Do you want to continue into the first round?

We'll begin with Madame Mendès.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Ferguson. I also want to thank your team.

I think we all want to congratulate you on your excellent work on behalf of Canadians to ensure parliamentarians can hold the government accountable for its financial choices. I'm happy to see an increase in the number of studies conducted within the context of the committee.

Are you talking specifically about the Standing Committee on Public Accounts or about standing committees of the House in general?

3:55 p.m.

Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada

Michael Ferguson

Most of our performance audits come from the Auditor General, but some are prepared by the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, who is a public servant from our office.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC

I'm talking about the increase from 44% to 55%.

3:55 p.m.

Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC

That's what I mean. Is it just public accounts, or has it been a general increase in all the committees of the House?

3:55 p.m.

Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada

Michael Ferguson

I'm going by memory here. Certainly, most of the increase would have been an increase in hearings of the public accounts committee.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC

My colleague, Mr. Arya, would like to ask a question.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

You still have five minutes.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Mr. Ferguson.

I think you're asking almost the same, $68.3 million this year.

I know bilingualism is important, and you're doing your best to make sure that all employees are trained in both official languages. My concern is whether the bilingual requirement is affecting the recruitment of entry-level professional staff.

3:55 p.m.

Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada

Michael Ferguson

The bilingual requirements we have tend to be mostly at the supervisor level. Certainly, for support staff, people who have to provide services to the whole office, there is a requirement for them to have the ability and skills in both official languages.

In terms of our audit staff, it's more at the supervisory level. Auditors can come in with a competency in one language or the other. Then we help them obtain their second language throughout the course of their career. If they're coming in at a supervisory level, to supervise others, they have to be able to do that with a certain level of competence in both official languages.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON

You did mention that the 2015-16 committee review was at 55%. Was that because of the election year? There was some gap there instead of your target of 65%.

3:55 p.m.

Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada

Michael Ferguson

The 55% versus the 65%...?

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON

Yes.

3:55 p.m.

Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada

Michael Ferguson

In fact, the 55% was an increase from before. I think I mentioned that.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON

You said a 44% increase.

3:55 p.m.

Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada

Michael Ferguson

It had been 44%, and it went to 55%.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON

I was noting that you had a target of 65%, and committees reviewed 55% of your performance audits. I think that may be due to 2015 being the election year.

3:55 p.m.

Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada

Michael Ferguson

I don't think so. I would have to go back to be sure.

Fundamentally, we were pleased that it's going in the right direction. It had gone from 44% to 55%. We hope to get it to 65%, because the work that Parliament does on our audits is important to get the messages through and to get departments to react to it. We were happy it had gone from 44% to 55%, but there's still more work to go because we think 65% is the right target.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON

What kinds of services are provided without charge by other government organizations, which you mentioned here?

3:55 p.m.

Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada

Michael Ferguson

We get an amount voted in our main estimates. That amount tends to be used mostly for the direct cash transactions of things we have to pay for. We also produce a set of financial statements using generally accepted accounting principles. In the course of preparing that set of financial statements, we collect information about other services that other departments might provide.

It's fundamentally through the Department of Public Works, things like accommodation. We don't pay rent on the space we occupy. It was about $8 million in that. Health and life insurance are things we aren't paying for directly, but we try to accumulate all of that to give you a picture of the overall cost to government of running our organization, which is actually beyond just the main estimate amount, because other departments are incurring some costs on our behalf.

4 p.m.

Liberal

Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

4 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thank you very much, Mr. Arya.

Mr. McColeman, for seven minutes.