Mr. Ossowski.
Evidence of meeting #78 for Public Accounts in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was goods.
A video is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #78 for Public Accounts in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was goods.
A video is available from Parliament.
9:50 a.m.
President, Canada Border Services Agency
Thank you for the comments on the professionalism of our officers. They care about this, and we do as well.
This is not something that we're just reacting to as a result of the Auditor General's report. We've been dealing with the importation of milk issue for years. This has provided some more evidence that we need to enhance our focus on it, particularly with respect to the recommendations that the Auditor General has made. We have a management response plan in place, and we are adjusting.
We do the best we can to manage the risk and complexity every single day. As I mentioned, there are 17 million releases and border volumes that are increasing in every mode. We are trying to manage the risk with the resources that we have available to us.
I mentioned, partly in response to the other member's question with respect to our assessment revenue management system, that it will help us with respect to how we interact with importers and manage this. This is in the procurement stage, and I hope to be in a position in the coming years to do a much better job than this.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
Alex Nuttall Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I would like to follow up where I left off. Does the United States offer some of the same information that the Auditor General has been able to bring forth in his audit in terms of trade going across the border, where Canadian companies either mislabelled or later changed the determination of what was in the trucks?
9:55 a.m.
President, Canada Border Services Agency
I'm sure they do, but I don't know the specifics of their particular program.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Alex Nuttall Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON
Mr. Auditor General, were you able to do any or have you seen any statistics from our friends south of the border, to see whether this is out of line with what...?
9:55 a.m.
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General
We didn't look at what was going on in the U.S. We only looked at what was happening coming across into Canada.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Alex Nuttall Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON
Thank you.
It would be interesting to understand how far outside of the norm this is. I would guess that somebody at the table would know what the policy is when Canadian companies are transporting goods to the United States. Do they have the same sorts of freedoms, where there's a four-year period where they can change what was on board?
9:55 a.m.
President, Canada Border Services Agency
I would have to get back to you on that one.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Alex Nuttall Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON
Okay.
You said at one point that it was unaffordable to go after the relatively small number of issues that equate to just over $100 million. I'd like to raise a couple of things. First of all, with all due respect to the Auditor General, I think the resources they have to actually check every single item would be similar to the difficulty you're describing in terms of being unaffordable. It's probably the tip of the iceberg.
At what point do you say we need to do this in order to enforce the border, in order to send a message and maintain the credibility of the border?
9:55 a.m.
President, Canada Border Services Agency
We work closely with our colleagues at Finance and Global Affairs in terms of understanding where they think we need to shift our efforts based on the broader administrative policy program framework. We do our best to enforce the laws that are in place at the time of the importation. As I said, I'm managing risk, and I don't think you'd want me to stop every single shipment at the border.
We're always looking for that very delicate balance between risk and facilitation. We're willing to take feedback and adjust accordingly.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Alex Nuttall Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON
Have you ever put a work plan together to try to deal with this issue?
9:55 a.m.
President, Canada Border Services Agency
We have a management response plan for all of the recommendations here in the Auditor General's report.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Alex Nuttall Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON
Do you know what the cost that makes it unaffordable is?
9:55 a.m.
President, Canada Border Services Agency
In terms of the true breadth of my stopping everything? My hypothesis is that you don't want me to come up with that number.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Alex Nuttall Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON
Right. I understand you're not looking to stop everything, but I mean in terms of perhaps cracking down on those that are most prevalent in the Auditor General's report, and targeting those players that may, as I've heard said a few times, be purposely doing this.
9:55 a.m.
President, Canada Border Services Agency
The Auditor General identified about $168 million in leakage. On the chicken side, we've recovered and assessed $72 million, and on the duty relief $38 million. We're making very good progress, and other verifications are still under way.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Alex Nuttall Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON
Do we charge interest charge on top of the...? What is the interest charge?
9:55 a.m.
Brad Loynachan Director, Trade Policy, Canada Border Services Agency
Depending on when payment is made, once the importers have been notified of non-compliance and revenue owing, it will either be a prescribed or specified rate. That obviously shifts with government rate. Usually the specified rate is 6% higher than the prescribed lower rate.
It doesn't have to do with non-compliance. It has to do with when the payment is made, once the importer is notified that they have an outstanding debt.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Alex Nuttall Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON
If I have no outstanding debt as of today, in chicken, what would my rate be that you're charging me as of tomorrow, keeping in mind the huge...?
9:55 a.m.
Director, Trade Policy, Canada Border Services Agency
Whatever the Government of Canada or Bank of Canada prescribed rate is at the time you're notified.
9:55 a.m.
Director, Trade Policy, Canada Border Services Agency
Plus 6% only in instances where in fact you haven't made payment.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Alex Nuttall Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON
Just to be clear, the Bank of Canada prescribed rate is what we're charging, except in some instances.