Evidence of meeting #81 for Public Accounts in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was problems.
A video is available from Parliament.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
On that I'd have to defer to the Treasury Board.
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
In the core public service there are 27.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
How many are in the system and expected to be covered by Phoenix?
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
By the time we do all of the public service, it will be 80.
November 28th, 2017 / 9:55 a.m.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
You're working on a quarter of them right now. Is that correct?
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Right, but I would add that the size of the bargaining units varies considerably.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
In implementing the collective agreement, it isn't necessarily just the size. There's also a baseline amount for just implementing the rules. Isn't that the case?
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
A certain amount of programming needs to be done for retroactive payments, yes.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
It's sort of like base time and effort required, plus implementation across, on a per public servant basis.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Correct.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
What percentage of the work do you think you will have done on implementing collective agreements by the end of this year?
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
By the end of the calendar year, I think we'll be very close to completion.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Of the 20.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
What percentage of the overall work in implementing 100% does that represent?
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
That depends on the collective bargaining processes, sir.
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
Mr. Whalen, we have to negotiate the deals. Then they—
Liberal
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
Yes. We're hoping they will be negotiated, and that will be future work. You're right, so—
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
I understand, Ms. Baltacioglu. I'm just going to continue with Mr. Linklater, because he says he's going to dedicate 200 employees to other work, and I don't think there's any real, legitimate timeline, as I'm going to try to establish through my questions, on which that can happen.
When will the other 55 departments and agencies that aren't already covered come online in Phoenix, and who would do that work?
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
That would be a decision the ministers would need to take once the system is stable.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
Sure. However, presumably the 200 people you're currently using are crisis-managed and have worked on difficult aspects of the system. They would be ideal candidates to help with future difficult work—things like implementing the 55 new departments and rolling forward the 60 other collective agreements that haven't yet been implemented in the system.
What about future negotiations? Each of these collective agreements is only four years long, so every month over the 48-month period there are, on average, two that need to be reimplemented in the system. Isn't that correct?
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I want to add that all departments are on Phoenix right now. Everybody uses Phoenix. It's the pay centre that only services 46 departments. The second phase has been put on hold until.... I can't see when right now.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
Presumably these 200 employees who are battle-tested in the crisis management associated with collective agreement implementation would be perfect candidates to roll over into completing the rest of the hard work, Mr. Linklater.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
They would be on transactions at first. That's our priority.