Public Accounts Committee on Feb. 20th, 2024

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

This report by the Auditor General is a really good report, I think, in terms of a wake-up call to ensure that we are making sure there's accountability for the dollars that we spend.

What steps do you think need to be taken to ensure that transparency and accountability occurs going forward?

[Heather Jeffrey]

Both the Auditor General and the Office of the Procurement Ombud made a series of recommendations that are being fully implemented by the Public Health Agency. On our part, we have put in place specific governance and operating procedures around contracting in emergencies to ensure that the lessons of this are incorporated into all future responses. We have stood up a contract review committee that is assessing contracts to make sure that we have consistency across our organization. We have put in place training and new governance for the quality assurance of contracts and to ensure that the documentation is on file.

We will be implementing all of the recommendations made by both of those offices in short order.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you. I really appreciate that.

With respect to this organization, GC Strategies, in December last year our public accounts committee worked together to ensure that we continue to hold the government to account, especially on this issue, and that we are doing the right thing with taxpayers' dollars. We put together a motion in a very collaborative fashion to ensure that we move forward in a good way and that we do the work with respect to that accountability as much as we can.

It came to light in an article in Le Journal de Montréal last week that the founders of GC Strategies received millions in contracts from the Harper government under the name Coredal Systems Consulting.

Mr. Chair, given that information and to continue to add to the context of the work we have already done on this, I have a motion that I am moving right now. I move:

That pursuant to the motion adopted on December 12, 2023 in relation to the committee’s request for all contracts between a government department, agency or Crown Corporations and GC Strategies, Dalian, and Coradix, that the committee expand this request to include all other companies incorporated by the co-founders of GC Strategies.

I really think we need to get to the bottom of this. We need to understand what is happening here. I would really like to see us expanding our initial work.

I think this committee is doing very important work in ensuring that we get to the bottom of how our taxpayer dollars are being spent and how efficient they are, and what we can do as a committee to ensure that we have an accountable, fair, open and transparent procurement process and a way of ensuring that we are spending taxpayer dollars with efficiency and with care.

I know people are really hurting nowadays. We must ensure that people have trust in our public institutions to pay their taxes and say, yes, we are running a good, fair and transparent country that is here to take care of their needs. Yes, during the pandemic—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I'm sorry. I have a point of order, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Hold on a second, Ms. Khalid. I was just going to cut you off. I think you were wrapping up. I hear what you're saying.

Mr. Genuis, I'm going to come back to you. I saw your hand, along with Mr. Desjarlais'. Give me a second. I just want to consult with the clerk for a minute.

Thank you, Ms. Khalid. I appreciate it. We have your motion here in both official languages. Just give me one second.

Mr. Genuis, you had a point of order, and then I have a speaking list, which includes Mr. Desjarlais and then you.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Yes, on a point of order, this is an important motion to discuss. Notice was not provided for it. I don't think it meets the “matter at hand” requirements. We are undertaking a study at present of the Auditor General's report. We have the Auditor General and senior officials, who have come before us to testify on that. A look at historical contracts from one of the same companies—not even the same but some of the principals involved in the present company—is a very different subject.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

On that same point of order, Chair—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I believe that proper notice should have been given. We would be happy to discuss it with proper notice.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Hold on for a second.

Mr. Desjarlais, do you have your hand up to speak to the motion, or do you have a point of order?

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

I have a point of order, if that's permissible.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Go ahead, please.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thank you very much.

I'm looking for a copy of the notice provided in both official languages before we debate or entertain that motion, please.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Mr. Desjarlais, I don't know if we have an electronic copy coming to you right away, but we will endeavour to get one to you.

It says:

That pursuant to the motion adopted on December 12, 2023 in relation to the committee’s request for all contracts between a government department, agency or Crown Corporations and GC Strategies, Dalian, and Coradix, that the committee expand this request to include all other companies incorporated by the co-founders of GC Strategies.

We will endeavour to get a copy to you.

Ms. Khalid, you have a point of order.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

On the point of order by Mr. Genuis, I believe that this is very much in line with what we are studying. We are trying to get to the bottom of how contracts are given out and who they're given out to. It is very strange that a company changes its name and has been operating within the whole procurement network for the past decade, at least, that we know of. I think this is very much in line with what our original motion was on this.

As you recall, Mr. Chair, over these past number of months, we've been talking about how we can get to the bottom of this. We've had these conversations. In fact, a number of times you've called special meetings to get to the bottom of this. I think this will add to where we go or where our accountability is and get us to an understanding of what this organization is and why it has been able to operate for so many years under different names and different contexts.

I think it is incumbent on us as a committee to be able to add to this ArriveCAN study by getting to know what this organization has been and what its history has been as well.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Chair, I'd like to follow up on the point of order, if I may.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Briefly, Mr. Genuis....

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Ms. Khalid is making arguments about a study happening at the government operations committee. Here at the public accounts committee the study is on—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Stop, both of you, please. This is now entering into a debate of the merit of the motion, which I think is valid on both sides.

I'm going to put this motion aside for now. I'm going to recognize that it has been tabled. I view it as tangential to this meeting but not in line with the business at hand, which is to discuss PHAC and its involvement.

Ms. Khalid, while I look forward to having this motion—

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

I'm sorry, Mr. Chair. I would have to—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Ms. Khalid, I have the floor now. I will allow points of order after. I'm going to give you my ruling.

We will pick this up. If members would like to use 106(4) and pick it up on Thursday, I'm available for that, or any time. However, this is outside the scope of this meeting. This meeting is focused on business of the ArriveCAN app, report 1, with PHAC officials. That is my ruling today.

I'm putting this aside, and I'm happy to come back on Thursday, or sooner if you like, although I think it takes 48 hours for a 106(4), but if I get agreement from other members, I'm happy to schedule a meeting for later this week.

Ms. Khalid, go ahead on your point of order to my ruling.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

I challenge your ruling, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Okay. That calls for a vote.

(Ruling of the chair overturned: nays, 7; yeas 3)

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

We are now debating this motion.

I'm not entirely sure how long this will take, so I will ask our witnesses just to hold for a little bit.

I do have a speaking order already, which includes Mr. Desjarlais and Mr. Genuis.

Then it will be Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné's turn.

Mr. Desjarlais, you have the floor.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I do believe, given the context of my position and my statement with regard to the origin of this issue—I made and motivated my point very clearly in the very first round and several times during this investigation already—it points to the very direct instance where the vulnerability of our public service creates the kind of risk we're seeing in GC Strategies, which is very relevant.

I support this motion because of the intent to get to the bottom of how these individuals at GC Strategies were able to take advantage of our public service, not just once but several times. We've seen in the breaking of the story in La Presse in Quebec that it was over $250 million since 2015. Prior to that, we're seeing from information I'm gathering that under their former name, Coredal, they were able to contract over $7 million with the Conservatives. That's just in our initial findings.

It is true that there is a rot in the public service. That rot's been generational and I've been clear about that generational rot. Now we're seeing both the Liberals and Conservatives being true to what is the very fact of the vulnerability present in our public service.

I welcome the Liberals' motion towards transparency. I would invite my Conservative colleagues, who are also interested in accountability and transparency, to really delve deep in their own statements made many times about the risks that GC Strategies and players like them present and vote in favour of such a thing. Anything less would be a deflection and would be something that seeks to hide what is the origin of the very important contractors on the other side of this.

These contractors are known to the government. They were known to the Conservative Party and they were known to the prior government under Harper.

We need to get to the bottom of this. I welcome this level of transparency, and I hope that my colleagues do too.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you, Mr. Desjarlais.

Ms. Khalid, I will acknowledge that I see your hand up. You're now third on the list.

Mr. Genuis, you have the floor, please.