Public Accounts Committee on Feb. 20th, 2024

[Heather Jeffrey]

For the purposes of the administration of the public service.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Right.

During the course of the ArriveCAN implementation, you were reporting to the Privy Council Office. You are aware that the Privy Council Office literally acts as a deputy minister for the Prime Minister. Is that correct?

[Heather Jeffrey]

The Public Health Agency functions as part of the health portfolio.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I'm not asking you about that, madam. I'm asking you about the structure of the Privy Council Office. That's the question.

Would you agree with me that it acts as a deputy minister to the Prime Minister?

[Heather Jeffrey]

Yes, that's one of the functions.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you.

Now I want to know, without getting into specifics, about all the contacts—whether they be telephone, email or in person—that you had with both Minister Hajdu and the Clerk of the Privy Council during the implementation of the ArriveCAN app.

Let's start with Minister Hajdu. How frequently were you consulting with her and informing her about the implementation of the app?

[Heather Jeffrey]

I would just clarify that it would be the role of the president of the Public Health Agency. However, since I've been in the role for one year, it was not me personally. However, there was structured COVID governance focused on the measures that were being taken at the border, so here I want to distinguish—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

The question is very specific, madam. I'm not talking about content; I'm talking about frequency.

Whether you were in the role as the president or the deputy minister at all relevant times or another colleague, how often you were consulting—telephone, email, meetings—with Minister Hajdu during the implementation of the app, specifically the 177 versions of the app, is the question.

Can you provide an answer to that, please?

[Heather Jeffrey]

As it regards the response to the COVID pandemic, the president of the Public Health Agency would have been in very frequent contact. I can't give a specific number, but in terms of the overall health response—the orders in council that developed the measures at the border—there was established governance that has been publicly disclosed—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you.

Let's move on to the PCO. It's the same question on frequency. How often...?

[Heather Jeffrey]

There were regular committees and governance structures that met about the COVID response.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Clearly you were not sharing with either Minister Hajdu or the Clerk of the Privy Council all of the failings that the Auditor General has identified—were you?

[Heather Jeffrey]

The responsibility to put in place the governance structure around the development of the app was—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Were you explaining to them about all the failings, as identified by the Auditor General? Did you explain to them that we had no contract, no budget? Were you giving some indication that this was really falling off the rails? Did you do that?

[Heather Jeffrey]

We were briefing, I'm sure, at the time on the operational requirement to stand up a digitized mechanism to facilitate—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Did the minister or the Clerk of the Privy Council ever ask you about costs—yes or no?

[Heather Jeffrey]

I was not in the role at the time, so I can't speak to that specifically, but I can say that the development of the app and the time pressures and the operational requirements—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

It sounds to me, madam, that—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I'm afraid that is the time, Mr. Brock.

Ms. Khalid, you have the floor for five minutes, please.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here today.

I've said this before to other witnesses that we've been able to question during committees. I am very disappointed with how this whole procurement process has happened, with a disregard, in my opinion, for public dollars, for taxpayer dollars, in how we conducted ourselves.

I do want to get to the accountability piece of it, and I know the Conservatives are doing their thing, but I do want to put the question to our PHAC officials.

Did the Prime Minister sign off on these contracts?

[Heather Jeffrey]

These contracts were concluded at different levels in the public service.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Did the Prime Minister sign off on them?

[Heather Jeffrey]

No, the Prime Minister is not a signatory to these contracts.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Was a minister a signatory to these contracts?

[Heather Jeffrey]

No.