Evidence of meeting #102 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was contracts.
A video is available from Parliament.
11:25 a.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
It was those three contracts that were subject to the concerns raised by Public Service and Procurement Canada. Is that correct?
February 21st, 2024 / 11:25 a.m.
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General
The concern was raised between the first non-competitive contract and the second one, based on the times.
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Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
You will have one last opportunity to wrap things up.
Mr. Barrett, you have the floor for five minutes.
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Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Are you aware how GC Strategies does its business? They're a middleman. Is that correct?
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Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Yes.
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Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Are you satisfied with the selection of GC Strategies, with value for money for Canadians in mind? Are you satisfied?
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Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I wouldn't be able to speak to the value for money because I did not observe the—
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Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
You said that you're changing processes at PSPC. Are you changing the processes because they were really good before and you want to make them worse, or because they were not good before and you're making them better?
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Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Obviously, we've had two reports, one from the Office of the Procurement Ombudsman and one from the Office of the Auditor General, which have clearly pointed out that there are many areas for improvement.
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Conservative
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Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
We're making changes to improve.
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Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
The app was supposed to cost $80,000. Were red flags raised to the minister when costs hit $1 million, yes or no?
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Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Whose minister?
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Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
I mean the minister responsible for your department.
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Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Mr. Chair, we put in place contracts—
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Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
For clarity, sir, all of my questions have to deal with your ministry, which you're here on behalf of.
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Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
We put in place contracts. We were not project management. We did not have an awareness of the overall project budget or of the totality of contracts. We were not aware.
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Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Did you ask what the budget was?
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Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
As a department, we were focused on what goods and services they needed, and those were the questions. We were focused on providing those.
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Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
It was supposed to cost $80,000. It hit $1 million. It hit $5 million. It hit $10 million. It hit $25 million. It hit $30 million, then $45 million and then at least $60 million, because the paper shredders must have been running and there are no documents to demonstrate what the actual costs were for this thing.
It's been raised, of course, that there were only two people working for GC Strategies, and they were pocketing this kind of money. You talked about the value of their being able to build a team. For the same price that just the GC Strategies portion of the “arrive scam” cost, you could hire 10 public servants to work for 25 years, and instead we got these geniuses who were taking 30% of this $20-million contract and potentially $258 million more. You said that you wouldn't be able to speak to the value for money. We heard that from the Auditor General. It doesn't exist in this case.
How many other two-person middlemen contractors are there that PSPC is allowing to do contracting for the Government of Canada? Give me just a number. How many others?
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Assistant Deputy Minister, Procurement Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I cannot comment on the number of suppliers who are using...or whether there are other suppliers basically running a two-person shop.
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Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Will you undertake to provide that information to the committee in writing after your appearance?
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Assistant Deputy Minister, Procurement Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I will take note of the question.