Public Accounts Committee on Feb. 21st, 2024

[Garnet Genuis]

—with no ability to do anything, can get hundreds of millions in contracts and then subcontract.

The Auditor General found that the process was actually rigged in favour of this company, and we heard at the government operations committee that this company broke the law by systematically altering résumés in order to get deals. The procurement ombudsman found further that the system was built to help insiders get contracts and to push those contractors to charge the government more. Frankly, these aren't just “arrive scam” issues. These are systematic issues.

You're the department responsible for overseeing contracting. With this systematic incompetence and corruption—perhaps both—that we're seeing, what would you say to Canadians who look at your department and ask, “Have you guys become totally useless given that these things could happen?” You're supposed to be watching, and they happened anyway.

[Michael Mills]

What I would say to Canadians is that the procurement system is very complex. It has become more complex over the years from a number of drivers: international trade agreements, a number of rules—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I'm sorry. I am going to press the point, though. The question isn't whether or not it's complex. The question is whether your department is doing anything, whether your department is adding value. If you were able to allow this kind of corruption, incompetence or both in the procurement process, if it just happened while you were there, was your department adding any value? Was it doing anything in the process?

[Michael Mills]

What I was about to say was that, given this complexity, we have procurement processes that are complex to try to deal with rules, regulations and whatnot. What we are doing, and what our strong effort is, is to make procurement simpler so it's more open to small and medium-sized enterprises across this country, particularly diverse suppliers across this country. By making it simpler and more accessible, we will get better value for Canadians.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

That doesn't really answer the question, though.

In fact, the procurement ombud's report shows that the system was built to give preference to insiders, because you have to have pre-existing experience with the Government of Canada in order to get those bids.

I'm not getting a clear answer about what your department does.

Moving it up to the minister, what does Minister Duclos do as minister of procurement? Is he responsible for what happened here? Was he seeking briefings on GC Strategies? What is he doing, or not doing, in his role?

[Michael Mills]

Typically, our procurement authority is delegated by the minister down to departmental officials, and the vast majority of our procurement activity is authorized, managed and overseen by departmental officials.

There would be a handful of individual procurements that would invoke the authorities of the minister for actual approval and there would be a number—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I'm sorry, but when was he first briefed on GC Strategies, then?

[Michael Mills]

I would have to undertake to provide information on the briefings to Minister Duclos and the timing of those.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

You will undertake to provide an answer in writing to this committee within seven days. Is that correct?

[Michael Mills]

I will undertake to provide a response. I'm not sure that I can meet the seven days part.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

It's typically 14 days before we start—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Will you provide that information in 14 days?

[Michael Mills]

Yes.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

We'd like to know when Minister Duclos and previous ministers were briefed about ArriveCAN and GC Strategies.

Will you also undertake to give the committee a complete list of all pre-qualified contractors within the same timeline?

[Dominic Laporte]

Which contract do you mean?

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I mean all pre-qualified contractors—people who have the GC Strategies process available to them.

[Michael Mills]

You mean all those who are pre-qualified on the supply arrangements.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

You must have a list.

[Michael Mills]

Okay.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I'd like that within 14 days.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

You have time for a brief question, Mr. Genuis.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you.

These aren't just ArriveCAN issues. These are systemic issues.

Why did your department allow this to happen and, again, what value are you providing in the process?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Could you provide a brief answer, please?

[Michael Mills]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm not sure.... Why our department allows what to happen?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

We'll come back.

Mr. Genuis, you started your question at the time, and I allowed you to finish it.