Public Accounts Committee on Feb. 21st, 2024

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

It was those three contracts that were subject to the concerns raised by Public Service and Procurement Canada. Is that correct?

[Karen Hogan]

The concern was raised between the first non-competitive contract and the second one, based on the times.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

That is you time, Mr. Desjarlais.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

You will have one last opportunity to wrap things up.

Mr. Barrett, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Are you aware how GC Strategies does its business? They're a middleman. Is that correct?

[Michael Mills]

Yes.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Are you satisfied with the selection of GC Strategies, with value for money for Canadians in mind? Are you satisfied?

[Michael Mills]

I wouldn't be able to speak to the value for money because I did not observe the—

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

You said that you're changing processes at PSPC. Are you changing the processes because they were really good before and you want to make them worse, or because they were not good before and you're making them better?

[Michael Mills]

Obviously, we've had two reports, one from the Office of the Procurement Ombudsman and one from the Office of the Auditor General, which have clearly pointed out that there are many areas for improvement.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Yeah, big time.

[Michael Mills]

We're making changes to improve.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

The app was supposed to cost $80,000. Were red flags raised to the minister when costs hit $1 million, yes or no?

[Michael Mills]

Whose minister?

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

I mean the minister responsible for your department.

[Michael Mills]

Mr. Chair, we put in place contracts—

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

For clarity, sir, all of my questions have to deal with your ministry, which you're here on behalf of.

[Michael Mills]

We put in place contracts. We were not project management. We did not have an awareness of the overall project budget or of the totality of contracts. We were not aware.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Did you ask what the budget was?

[Michael Mills]

As a department, we were focused on what goods and services they needed, and those were the questions. We were focused on providing those.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

It was supposed to cost $80,000. It hit $1 million. It hit $5 million. It hit $10 million. It hit $25 million. It hit $30 million, then $45 million and then at least $60 million, because the paper shredders must have been running and there are no documents to demonstrate what the actual costs were for this thing.

It's been raised, of course, that there were only two people working for GC Strategies, and they were pocketing this kind of money. You talked about the value of their being able to build a team. For the same price that just the GC Strategies portion of the “arrive scam” cost, you could hire 10 public servants to work for 25 years, and instead we got these geniuses who were taking 30% of this $20-million contract and potentially $258 million more. You said that you wouldn't be able to speak to the value for money. We heard that from the Auditor General. It doesn't exist in this case.

How many other two-person middlemen contractors are there that PSPC is allowing to do contracting for the Government of Canada? Give me just a number. How many others?

[Dominic Laporte]

I cannot comment on the number of suppliers who are using...or whether there are other suppliers basically running a two-person shop.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Will you undertake to provide that information to the committee in writing after your appearance?

[Dominic Laporte]

I will take note of the question.