Public Accounts Committee on Feb. 29th, 2024

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Okay.

I'm asking the Treasury Board to submit a list of all government employees who are also working as government contractors. Can you provide that within 15 days?

[Monia Lahaie]

We will attempt to combine the information into a list.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

You can take note of the request and get back to us, please. Thank you.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

This is for the Treasury Board.

Minister Anita Anand announced in November that the government—as crazy and ludicrous as this sounds—paid almost $700,000 to KPMG, a consultant, for advice on how to cut costs on outside consulting fees. She indicated in November—she actually promised Canadians—that she would release the first wave of details that month. She did not do so. Why not?

[Monia Lahaie]

I can't speak to that either. I was prepared to talk about the public accounts today. I'm sorry. I don't have that information.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

That is a perfectly acceptable answer.

Mr. Brock, you have a minute and 40 left.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Okay.

Mr. Kennedy, do you have any response?

[Blair Kennedy]

No, it's the same. I'm not prepared to speak to that either.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

All right.

She also promised that there would be about a $15-billion savings over five years from existing spending. Contract work from Natural Resources was part of that department's contribution to the spending reduction effort.

To the Treasury Board, have they begun work on the House motion that was passed yesterday on a full accounting of all direct and associated ArriveCAN costs? Has the work started in light of the motion that was passed?

[Monia Lahaie]

Again, I don't know. I was prepared to talk about the public accounts. I would assume they're working on finding information for that, but I am not aware.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Will you, within 15 days, provide the House with an update as to the efforts at the Treasury Board to acquire those costs so we can, as Canadians and parliamentarians, try to put a finite figure on the cost the Auditor General was unable to determine?

Her best guess was $60 million. That did not include subcontractors. That did not include actual monies paid for the federal public service. This is very important to Canadians, and you will do so within 15 days. Is that correct?

[Monia Lahaie]

That's correct.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Very good. That is your time.

We're turning now to Ms. Yip.

You have the floor for five minutes, please.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

I'd like to direct this to Ms. Hogan. I just want to give you a second to finish.

Mr. Brock has just mentioned—he inferred—that it cost at least $60 million. Facts do matter, and this is a serious situation. We see that the Conservatives are playing politics with this issue. That shows that they are not so serious about it.

Do you believe that when quoting you or your office, members have a responsibility to do so accurately and responsibly?

[Karen Hogan]

I trust that everyone will quote our reports accurately. Once they've been tabled in the House of Commons, they're a matter of public record, and they're there to be used for others as they would like.

What I would offer up is that our estimate of $59.5 million was paid to all vendors that had a direct contractual obligation with the federal government. When they are not firms providing direct work but are hiring subcontractors, they are expected to take those funds and disburse them to their subcontractors.

We actually had an exhibit in our report to help understand the flow of funds. I would offer that up as some information to help inform committee members as they study the dollar value that we put on the app.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Thank you.

The public accounts reported that the deficit was $17.5 billion lower than forecasted. Given this fact and that we maintain both the lowest deficit and net debt-to-GDP ratio of any G7 country, what does that say about the direction of fiscal policy?

[Evelyn Dancey]

I'll take that question. I accurately quoted that information.

As to the government's perspective and all the documents—the fall economic statement and budget 2023—it continues to be the case that the government is putting forward a sound economic and fiscal plan. That includes a fiscal anchor the government is abiding by, which is the declining net debt-to-GDP ratio, over the medium term. That is our budgetary horizon. We also do long-term modelling, and it shows the continued downward trajectory, which is a key indicator around fiscal sustainability.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

That's good to hear.

Ms. Hogan, funding your office has been extremely important, as it allows you to continue the excellent work you have been entrusted to do.

During the first of Harper's years, your budget was $78.6 million, and during the last year it was only $81.8 million. When Pierre Poilievre was minister responsible for safeguarding—

[An hon. member]

Isn't she not allowed to name people?

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

She said a name—

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Yes, because I believe you set the trend—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

All right. Order.

Ms. Yip, I've stopped the clock. The floor is yours.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

She's engaging in politics, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

We've settled this.

It's over to you. You have a minute and 50 seconds.