Evidence of meeting #105 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cbsa.
A video is available from Parliament.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
You're back on the clock, Ms. Khalid. Go ahead. I believe Mr. Weber had the floor.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Go ahead, Mr. Weber. You were telling me about the services you provide members of the union.
4:10 p.m.
National President, Customs and Immigration Union
We ensure they're treated fairly and that the rights they have under our collective agreement are upheld.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
Specifically, what kinds of things would members come to you for?
4:10 p.m.
National President, Customs and Immigration Union
For grievances, health and safety representation.... Really, for any issue they have where they're not being treated as they should be, they come to the union.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
How many agents do you think called in on a leave of absence between 2020 and 2021?
4:10 p.m.
National President, Customs and Immigration Union
I'd be guessing. We can get those numbers for you and provide them. I don't have them.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
I'm sorry. Would you like those numbers, Ms. Khalid? That was an offer. Is that something you would like?
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
Yes. I would very much like to know what those numbers are.
Could you tell us, perhaps in more general terms if you don't have specific numbers, what the morale of CBSA agents was like during COVID times? How were people using and abusing the systems or how were they going through the borders? How were CBSA officers feeling?
4:10 p.m.
National President, Customs and Immigration Union
I would say that morale was low. People were frustrated. Again, we had very little ability to enforce anything, so we ended up spending the vast majority of our time at the border trying to get the app to work and trying to get people to complete the app as they needed to.
Morale was low then, and it didn't get much better, obviously, during COVID. People had other concerns and worries as they dealt with COVID in their normal lives—
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
You're saying the morale was still very low, regardless of whether the app was used.
March 5th, 2024 / 4:10 p.m.
National President, Customs and Immigration Union
The morale was low. There were different challenges all the time. Right now, again, it's about staffing, it's about not having a collective agreement, it's—
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
Right, so morale is low right now because of various challenges, not just because of an app.
Can you perhaps help us understand what kind of training was provided to CBSA officers when using the ArriveCAN app?
4:10 p.m.
National President, Customs and Immigration Union
It was next to none. It was online.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
Basically, we just threw our officers in to deal with the pandemic, to deal with a very anxious public and then to use an app that they had zero—next to none—training on. Is that correct?
4:10 p.m.
National President, Customs and Immigration Union
Largely, yes. There was some very cursory training and—
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
That's fine. Thank you.
Why do you think you're here today, Mr. Weber?
4:10 p.m.
National President, Customs and Immigration Union
I was asked to appear to provide information around the rollout of the ArriveCAN app.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
Is that with respect to the Auditor General's report? Are we talking about the financial cost of the app, or are we talking about the versatility or usage of the app, in your opinion?
4:10 p.m.
National President, Customs and Immigration Union
You ask the questions, so it's about whatever you ask me. I'm here to help.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
What is your objective? What is it that you want on the record today?
If there's one thing you could say to this committee about the ArriveCAN app, about how CBSA officers dealt with having to use it during COVID—without any training, as you said—and about having to deal with health issues and low morale, what message do you have for our committee?
4:10 p.m.
National President, Customs and Immigration Union
Our officers did the best they could under the circumstances, which were extremely difficult. We would like, going forward, to not see the app continue to be used and continue to be expanded to replace officers at the peril of the safety of all Canadians.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
Is that because the app cost too much, or is it because of other factors that you, as a union representative for CBSA officers dealing with HR issues, dealing with low morale and health issues...? Is that the cause of it?