Public Accounts Committee on April 3rd, 2024

[Jonathan Moor]

No. I had no concerns, and no concerns were raised at our level.

Just for context of how busy we were during that period, it was all hands on deck. We were working incredibly long hours on a large number of different things. It was very difficult to establish the same procedures and protocols as we are doing now.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much. That is the time.

We will begin our third round with Mr. Viersen, who is joining us virtually.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for being here today.

Mr. Moor, presumably your department has emergency planning in place. Would that be the case?

[Jonathan Moor]

Yes. We have a standing emergency plan, which was utilized during the pandemic. As I said earlier, we established three separate governance committees. We decided to split the operational crisis management committee into two—the internal task force, which I chaired, and the border task force, which was chaired by the vice-president of the travellers branch. They both reported to the emergency management committee, which was the executive committee. In the early days, that committee met daily throughout, essentially 24-7.

Over time, the frequency of those meetings started to go down slightly, but it was definitely operating in an emergency management approach across the entire country. All the individual regions also had to manage with a vast change in their approach to how they operated at the border. A lot of the ports of entry, certainly the ones that were commercial, were operating incredibly hard, whereas some of the traveller ones actually saw a very big reduction in the volume.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Was this the first time you experienced, in your role—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Just one second, Mr. Viersen. I have a point of order.

Yes, Ms. Yip, go ahead.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

I would like the chair to remind those in the room not to take photos.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Oh, I did not catch that. You are absolutely correct. There should be no photos.

I'll have the clerk check with you, Ms. Yip, on whom you spotted. I will instruct the clerk to have them delete the photo or photos.

Thank you, Ms. Yip.

Mr. Viersen, you have three and a half minutes to go, please. It's over to you.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Moor, in your time in your position, was this the first time your department used this emergency planning procedure?

[Jonathan Moor]

Sadly, our department uses it on too regular a basis.

For example, a few months ago when there was a tragic accident in the United States at the Rainbow Bridge, the southern Ontario region had to use emergency planning for that, especially during the period when it was considered a possible terrorist attack. For any operational activity at the border, we will bring in our emergency management procedures.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

That was not the first time it happened, so it seems unique that there would be a general COVID fund. Was that unique?

[Jonathan Moor]

It was unique, but it was also a product of what we had to do. For example, we had to increase the cleaning of our ports of entry to twice a day from once a day. We had to secure, with the help of the Public Health Agency and PSPC, all of the PPE. We had to buy sanitization cabinets to allow the officers to steam-clean their tools, so it was lots of different—

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

It was a very broad fund.

[Jonathan Moor]

It was a very broad fund covering a number of different activities.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Would you say it was like a COVID slush fund?

[Jonathan Moor]

I would not call it a slush fund. It was an emergency management fund. In the first year, we provided $5 million for the information, science and technology branch to partially cover their costs in the first year of the ArriveCAN app.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

From soup to nuts, you could put it in that fund. Was it basically an expense account?

[Jonathan Moor]

It was an emergency management committee decision. All decisions went to the emergency management committee, which decided what it was going to fund with that money.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

What kind of oversight did the minister have of that particular fund?

[Jonathan Moor]

The minister would have had no oversight of that because we were taking the money from our operational funding. The minister has oversight when the main estimates or supplementary estimates are agreed to. That is the only time the minister has oversight.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Would he have known about this COVID slush fund?

[Jonathan Moor]

He probably would not have known about the emergency management fund, but I can't comment on whether the president at that time referred to it.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Would everything from protective gloves, masks and cleaning equipment to IT sourcing have gone through the same funding?

[Jonathan Moor]

Yes, and in the first year it was about $20 million in total.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

You can see how the Auditor General would have had a challenge in dissecting this particular slush fund.