Public Accounts Committee on April 4th, 2024

[Lydia Lee]

KPMG has been doing business with the federal government for many years—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I'm not asking that question.

In relation to the ArriveCAN app and its implementation, were you working with any ministries other than Public Health and the CBSA?

[Lydia Lee]

For the Public Health Agency work we did, we were aware that there were ongoing discussions with other government departments as part of the operational implementation of the program. We were not contracted by...nor did we have any direct contracting or procurement-related discussions as they related to ArriveCAN to support that work.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Let's talk about the contracts. We've talked about the competitive contract that you were asked to bid on. We also know, through the Auditor General's report, that there were a number of non-competitive contracts that you were ultimately awarded.

Giving just the number, how many were competitive and how many were non-competitive?

[Lydia Lee]

The initial TA was the competitive steps. That was the—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Was that the only one that was competitive?

[Lydia Lee]

That is correct for the Public Health Agency-related work.

[Lydia Lee]

If I may add, there were two subsequent contracts directly awarded by the Public Health Agency to KPMG.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Right.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

They were non-competitive.

[Lydia Lee]

That's correct. They were directed to us.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

What about through the CBSA?

[Hartaj Nijjar]

Thank you.

For the work we did on the cybersecurity front, there were two contracts that were with GC Strategies. There were no direct contracts with the CBSA.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

They were non-competitive as well. Is that correct?

You weren't bidding against other companies. You were asked to work with GC Strategies, so it was a non-competitive contract.

[Hartaj Nijjar]

We were asked to submit a proposal to GC Strategies—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

That was ultimately granted.

[Hartaj Nijjar]

—which was granted.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

There were two with the CBSA and two with PHAC—that's four—and one was competitive. They were for $5 million.

How many employees at KPMG worked on those five contracts for $5 million?

[Lydia Lee]

I don't have the number off the top of my head, but I can say that over the close to two and a half years that we supported the Public Health Agency, we had a number of people. I was the engagement partner, but we had a number of people. On the original TA, we might have had 10 or 15 people who were identified and participated in some initial stakeholder engagement.

As time went on, we had—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Let's move on to the issue now that you were directed by the CBSA to work directly with GC Strategies. You indicated, sir, when pressed, that it was Mr. Antonio Utano who did that.

Is that right?

[Hartaj Nijjar]

That is correct.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Did he reach out directly to you or to another partner?

[Hartaj Nijjar]

Mr. Utano reached out to our federal government practice.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

What does that mean?

[Hartaj Nijjar]

KPMG has a number of industry specialists—