Public Accounts Committee on April 4th, 2024

[Hartaj Nijjar]

I can take that one. We had not worked with GC Strategies prior to the engagement in question, nor have we worked with them after.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

If GC Strategies were working under a different name, would your answer still qualify for that?

[Hartaj Nijjar]

Yes, I believe my answer would qualify.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Has KPMG worked with the Coradix, Dalian or Coredal companies in the past?

[Hartaj Nijjar]

To my knowledge, we have not.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

How do you, in KPMG, work with your employees and your contractors as they work with government to ensure there is no overlap or conflict between government employees and KPMG as a consulting agency? Is there a conflict that you provide checks on?

[Hartaj Nijjar]

For any engagement that KPMG takes on, we have not only a rigorous client acceptance and engagement acceptance process, but a conflict check process as well, to understand whether there are any independence or conflict issues that may arise. We take those matters extremely seriously, and those are performed on every engagement.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

What kind of checks do you look for in regard to conflict?

[Hartaj Nijjar]

We look for relationships—personal relationships and family relationships. There's a series of questions we must answer for the engagement team and for the engagement partner with respect to any relationships they may have with the organization, and things of that nature.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Nijjar and Ms. Lee.

Those are all my questions today.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much, Ms. Khalid.

We will once again turn to our Bloc member.

Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné, you have two minutes and thirty seconds.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Thank you, Chair.

Let’s go back to the partner who was contacted about cybersecurity. I believe you said it was Mr. Imraan Bashir. When this person performed what we call a risk assessment at PwC, where I spent part of my career, before signing a contract, he should have seen that it was abnormal for a government employee to ask GC Strategies to subcontract this project to KPMG. This employee, if he was on your team, especially if he was a partner and therefore someone who knows about reputational risks, should have realized that there was a problem.

Now, I would have put the question directly to this person, as he should have been present today. So I’d like a written answer from him to the following question: Was he aware that GC Strategies was inviting members of the government, including Mr. Antonio Utano, to activities such as events, whisky tastings and golf tournaments? Was he aware of this? I’d like his written response to be provided to the committee, please.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Let me just interrupt for a second.

In terms of how House of Commons committees work, we seek information from witnesses. Members will request information, which we hope witnesses will provide. If you're agreeable to that, we typically hope for an answer within two or three weeks, at which point the committee analysts will reach out.

You're probably aware of this, but I'll state it anyway. Committees have the power to call documents to be brought forward as well. Those powers are quite sweeping. We do encourage witnesses to work with the committees as much as possible to provide documents. Now, it is quite an extreme measure for committees to compel documents to be brought forward, but it has happened, even in this Parliament.

I thought I should probably state that. Generally, it's an agreeable practice. Witnesses are here to help committee members understand, and they do endeavour to provide documents.

Do you have a question for me? Go ahead.

[Hartaj Nijjar]

Is it our responsibility to remember everything that's being asked of us, or will we get a summary?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

That's a good question. The analysts will provide a list of what the committee members have asked for.

[Hartaj Nijjar]

Okay. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

That's why as the chair I also endeavour to confirm that you've understood the request. I would not want to put a witness in a position where a member has asked for a document and the witness was not aware, or the request kind of flew over, in a way. I believe Mr. Brock was quite clear on what he's hoping to receive. It was just a question of the timeline that I wanted to highlight at the end, but I thought I'd better do that right now.

Yes, we will loop back around with you and provide information to you. If there is a concern, you can flag that with the committee. We'll of course consider that, but as I said, the powers of the House of Commons committees are quite sweeping when it comes to information.

I'll turn things back to you to answer that question from Madame Sinclair-Desgagné. If you like, she can ask it again now that I've spent a few minutes....

Why don't you go ahead and do that again, Nathalie? I've stopped the clock. I'll run it again once you're done the question.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

In fact, I’m asking for an answer from his associate who was in direct contact with GC Strategies. Was Mr. Bashir aware that the two people from GC Strategies were inviting members of the government to events such as whisky tastings, golf tournaments and so on?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I'm going to start the clock again right now.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Mr. Chair, how much time do I have left, is it one minute?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Yes, you have one minute.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Very well, thank you.

I’ll move on to the next question, then—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Before we begin, is that something you could work with your colleague to provide?

[Hartaj Nijjar]

Thank you.

Yes, we can work with Mr. Bashir to try to provide that.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you. The committee appreciates it.

Ms. Sinclair-Desgagné, you have one minute left.