Public Accounts Committee on May 30th, 2024

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Ms. Lee, I asked you specifically on the last occasion if you would forward to the committee any and all levels of communication by the CBSA to KPMG to engage with GC Strategies—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Please ask your question, Mr. Brock.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I asked for text messages—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Ask your question, Mr. Brock.

Mr. Brock, you're out of time, so if you have a question—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I do have a question.

Why haven't you delivered that to the committee?

[Lydia Lee]

Thank you very much for the member's question on that.

Our understanding was that you wanted to understand the way in which we became...well, that Imraan and our team became introduced to GC Strategies at the time, and we did provide all of that information in our written response.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much.

Up next is Ms. Shanahan. You have the floor for five minutes, please.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Thank you very much, Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for being here today on this topic, but I'm afraid that I have to speak about something as a member here.

This is the 19th or the 20th meeting, I believe, that the public accounts committee is holding on this topic, because of course we were very much seized with the Auditor General's report regarding the lack of documentation and so on around ArriveCAN, but now we're getting, you know.... It's the 19th or 20th meeting—I've lost track—and members here have become concerned with the scheduling of meetings, so forgive me; I will have questions for you, but it's very important to me that we have some clarification on our schedule going forward.

We've experienced meetings being called randomly, witnesses being changed and changes in the types of meetings that have occurred, and we have other reports that we need to discuss in this committee, namely around an issue that's very important to the people of my riding, which is biodiversity.

Chair, I want to put on notice the following motion:

That, given that nature is an integral part of Canadian culture and Canadian identity and provides unmeasurable value to our society; wildfires across Canada are impacting communities, the health of Canadians, and exacerbating the climate and biodiversity crises; every industry relies on a biodiverse supply of natural resources to function; the world is experiencing an unprecedented biodiversity crisis; there are more than one million species facing extinction globally, including 640 at-risk species in Canada; the rapid decline in biodiversity threatens the foundations of our economy, our food security, our health and our quality of life and poses serious and irreversible risks to our communities and livelihoods; there is a climate emergency, as declared by this House on June 17, 2019; nature and climate are intertwined and you cannot solve one crisis without solving the other; that the committee commit to studying 2022 Report 7, Protecting Aquatic Species at Risk, on June 13, 2023; Report 2, Follow-up on the Recovery of Species at Risk, on June 18, 2023; and report 2023, Report 3—Discretionary Powers to Protect Species at Risk, on June 20, 2024.

I have a copy of the motion to give to the clerk.

With that, I want to proceed to my questions.

We haven't heard from TEKsystems yet.

Mr. Loschmann, can you please tell us how TEKsystems became engaged with the government on the development of ArriveCAN?

[Christopher Loschmann]

Thank you for the question.

Mr. Chair, as I mentioned in my opening statement, TEKsystems did not have an ArriveCAN contract. We bid on and won two contracts through an open, fair and competitive process to provide staff augmentation services to CBSA. We were providing professionals to them, and those professionals worked at the direction of CBSA. CBSA asked us for resources, and they placed them on the ArriveCAN project.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Thank you for that.

Then are you indeed a subcontractor in the ArriveCAN contract?

[Christopher Loschmann]

Mr. Chair, TEKsystems was a prime contractor directly to CBSA.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Thank you very much.

Chair, I now move,

That the committee immediately conduct a study into the flagrant disregard for public funds exercised by Pierre Poilievre's Conservative Party of Canada members of Parliament, who expensed their travel costs, hotels and per diems to travel to Quebec City for the Conservative Party of Canada partisan convention in September 2023, as a matter of the public interest, and report its findings to the House.

Chair, I discussed this motion in a previous meeting. We didn't get to conclude that, to debate further on that, but I think it behooves this committee, being the public accounts committee, to investigate the abuse of taxpayer funds, as we have seen by the Conservative Party of Canada.

It's a matter of utmost importance that members here all conduct themselves in the way they expect contractors and subcontractors to conduct themselves with respect to the use of public funds.

Chair, you'll recall that I spoke about what some third parties had to say about this report, which was in the media a couple of weeks ago—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Mrs. Shanahan, you're moving to resume debate on this motion. Is that right?

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

I am moving this motion, yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I'm ruling this motion out of order for this committee. This is a matter for procedure and House affairs or the Board of Internal Economy.

On that, you are out of time. I'm going to begin our next—

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Chair, I challenge your ruling.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

I have a point of order before the ruling.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Well, the chair has been challenged, and I think I have to go directly to the vote on that.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Can we just vote on the motion and dispose of it so we can get back to this business?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Well, I already have a speakers list on this motion, so it won't be a snap vote, Mr. Desjarlais. We have a subcommittee meeting on Monday. We can bring it up then, but the chair has been challenged.

Mr. Clerk, could you call the roll on that, please?

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

On a point of order, what is the vote on exactly? Is the vote on the challenge?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Yes. The clerk will explain.

It's probably going to be restated, but Ms. Khalid has challenged my ruling. If you vote to affirm my decision, we continue with the witnesses. If you vote against my ruling, we will turn to the motion and, I'm sure, debate that for the remainder of the meeting.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

The option to just vote on it, dispose of it and get back to the meeting isn't possible. That would be my preference.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Then you would want to vote to affirm my decision.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

I understand.