Evidence of meeting #133 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was projects.
A video is available from Parliament.
Principal, Office of the Auditor General
The 194 projects were not approved all at once.
Bloc
Principal, Office of the Auditor General
I can't tell you, but, from memory, I'd say there were about fifteen.
Principal, Office of the Auditor General
Maybe the foundation has this information, but, from memory, I'd say there were about 15.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
All right.
Can you provide us with an answer later? Is this information in your files? It would be interesting to know that number. Can you pass this information on to the committee?
Principal, Office of the Auditor General
There were 12 components; it's written in the report.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
All right.
There were 12 components and about 20 projects per component.
You said the process was different. Did anyone explain why the projects were approved as a whole? It's possible that you were given a satisfactory explanation, but it's also possible that you weren't.
Principal, Office of the Auditor General
We put the question to the foundation's director and management team. The amount was $100,000. This is a relative assessment of the amount of money that is disbursed and the time required to approve the process. That's what the directors and management team told us.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
The $100,000 amount had therefore been deemed too modest to be able to carry out the necessary verifications or to ensure that the terms and conditions of the contribution agreements were respected.
Is this correct?
Principal, Office of the Auditor General
Risk assessment is lower when disbursing $100,000 than when disbursing a few million dollars. It was therefore decided that the board should devote its time to the larger projects, where the risks were potentially greater.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
The fact remains that $19.5 million has been disbursed. That's a lot of money for taxpayers, especially in a time of crisis.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
Mr. Lequain, I'm sorry, but I'm going to give you more work. The question of overlap is very interesting. I'm not talking about the 96 cases where conflict of interest policies were followed. Would it be possible to provide us with a follow-up on this?
I'm interested precisely in the conflict of interest cases for which policies were not followed, the projects that were deemed eligible even though they didn't comply with the contribution agreements, and the 10 ineligible projects.
Can you provide me with this information on these three categories, the overlap and the total amount?
Conservative
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Thank you very much.
I'm going to ask you two yes-or-no questions, Ms. Urie. I'd like you to answer them before I move on.
Does the contribution agreement require SDTC to review financial compliance and fully complete a project budget for an approval?
Vice-President, Finance, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
Yes, it does.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Would SDTC executives recommend a project to the board if there were concerns of financial non-compliance and incomplete budgets?
Vice-President, Finance, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
I don't believe so.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Why, then, were the financial concerns of non-compliance relating to the ALUS ecosystem ignored?
Vice-President, Finance, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
I don't believe there were concerns about financial non-compliance with the ALUS ecosystem project. ALUS had proposed a project to help remediate the soil—
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
What about more broadly with ecosystems? Did you ever have any concerns about financial non-compliance with the ecosystem projects?
Vice-President, Finance, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
Anytime there is a concern about financial compliance, it's about ensuring that we're funding an appropriate project budget—
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Ms. Urie, I'm going to reference to you an email that you sent to Christine Charbonneau dated February 24, 2022. The subject line was “DD number 4, February 22nd question”. You said that attached was a summary of the expenses that were planned for the ecosystem project that is being proposed for potentially 2022-B. You may recall this. You also said that it was a challenge to ensure compliance, as there was no clear project identified.
Do you recall that email?
