Public Accounts Committee on Sept. 3rd, 2024

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

As amended, yes.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

As amended, of course.

Mr. Perkins, I do appreciate your putting together this witness list, and I do appreciate your work on this file. I'm often considerate to the fact that you're a very reasonable parliamentarian to work with, so I very much appreciate your presence on this committee.

My question is regarding the inclusion of the founder of Cycle Capital, Andrée-Lise Méthot. Could I have an explanation of your reason for including that name? Is it because they're on the list of conflict of interest persons?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I'm going to seek unanimous consent for Mr. Perkins to answer Mr. Desjarlais. Please be brief. Do I have that agreement? Mr. Desjarlais had a question for Mr. Perkins as to why he added a witness. The list is six deep.

Mr. Perkins will be brief, if you don't mind. He'll answer Mr. Desjarlais.

Go ahead, Mr. Perkins. Please be brief, and I'll hold you to that.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

You know how tough that is for me.

Andrée-Lise Méthot is not only the founder of Cycle Capital; for five years during that time she was a director of SDTC. She was specifically on the list. She was actually the one on the list with the most conflicts, according to the Auditor General.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thank you very much for that, Mr. Perkins,.

In consideration of that—this is just a matter of clarification, and I'm sure we could get UC on it—just so there's consistency with the way the motion is worded, we should include the fact that she's a former board member of SDTC in addition to being the founder of Cycle Capital.

I think for every other witness the motion says that, as it does for Stephen Kukucha, former board member, and Guy Ouimet, another former board member, and there are a couple of other instances where it says that. Would it be useful for the committee, for clarity of our study, to include, as an addition to the amendment, that Ms. Méthot was a former board member of SDTC? I think that's an important factor.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Sure. Is the committee in agreement with that? That's almost stylistic. It's basically to add, under Andrée-Lise Méthot, “former board member, SDTC”, just for consistency. It's really a housekeeping issue.

All right. That's passed. That's fine. Thank you.

Is there anything else, Mr. Desjarlais?

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

There's nothing else.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, for the explanation.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Very good.

Mr. Brock, you have the floor.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you.

My intervention had certain points I wanted to bring across. They've already been articulated, so since I believe in efficiency, Mr. Chair, I'm going to forfeit my round.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Very good.

Mr. Genuis, this is your opportunity for the law clerk, if you like. It's over to you.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Chair, I move that we add the law clerk to the witness list.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Very good.

I have an amendment now to the motion as amended. Is there any debate on adding the House Commons law clerk?

There is none. Is there any opposition?

I'm going to call that passed.

Someone can yell for a vote if they like. That is passed. All right, the law clerk has been added as well.

Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné, you have the floor.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to add all the names on the list of people who have conflicts of interest. The Auditor General gave us a list of the 90 cases in which conflict-of-interest policies were violated, as well as the names of the people involved. Many of those names are already on the list, but I would like it to be complete.

I would like to add the following names: Judith Athaide, Carl Landry, Ellen McGregor, Ron Koudys, Jill Earthy, Chris Wormald and Erin Mahoney.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Is that seven people?

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Yes, seven.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Okay.

We have an amendment from Madame Sinclair-Desgagné to add seven names. Would you like me to suspend to allow us time to distribute them to everyone?

Okay. I'm going to suspend for five minutes to give the analysts and the clerk some time. They're going to come as names, so you can all consider them, and then I will have a new speaking list.

First will be Ms. Khalid and then Mr. Desjarlais, but I'm going to come back.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Just to clarify, are we asking for these seven people to appear as witnesses?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I believe so. I'll come back to Ms. Sinclair-Desgagné once the list has come back to you.

This meeting is suspended for five minutes.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I call the meeting back to order.

The list of the seven names that Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné would like to add has been sent.

Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné, you have the floor. Then it will be Mr. Desjarlais' turn.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

I don't have much to add, other than an interesting fact to note. Many of the 10 projects deemed ineligible are also on the conflict of interest list. I'm sure a lot of strings were pulled to get funding for those ineligible projects.

I think it will be interesting to hear from these witnesses and ask them questions about the potential conflicts of interest identified by the Auditor General.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much.

I have Mr. Desjarlais, and then I'll turn to another member after that.

Mr. Desjarlais, you have the floor, please.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I agree with the proposed amendment to invite the additional members who were found in conflict of interest, as identified earlier. I think it would be important for committee members to see that. My only question is on the format of the meetings. On further reflection, I think this is maybe a subject that we'll deal with in subcommittee in relation to how these witnesses will come.

I think there is an advantage to having them come as a group in addition to several other witnesses. I now see that there will be a procedural issue in trying to invite all of these witnesses. It's not likely that all of them would attend at the same time, but I think that for the purpose of narrowing our study, we could ensure that the subsequent meetings on this topic are organized in such a way that we get the best kind of organization possible. I think these witnesses in particular could come forward regarding the information on conflict of interest, which I think some other witnesses could also overlap with, including the AG.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Mr. Desjarlais, I will commit to having a subcommittee meeting the first week Parliament comes back so that we can pick that up, exactly. I think you make a good a good point there. I also heard that you agree, I think, with Madame Sinclair-Desgagné's amendment to the motion.

Ms. Khalid, you have the floor.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thanks, Chair. I wanted to be on the speaking list for the main motion. I support Madame Sinclair-Desgagné's additions to the list of witnesses.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Okay.

We'll have a roll call vote on this. This is to add the seven names. Even though I think there's broad agreement, I don't—