Evidence of meeting #139 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sdtc.
A video is available from Parliament.
As an Individual
The way this works is that a company can, let's say, be approved for $5 million. Once they've agreed to that amount, it's given out over a three- to five-year period.
As an Individual
Certain companies might have already been approved and already received money. Had they maybe submitted a request for their next milestone payment prior to the spring of this year, they would have received it. Again, they fell into the bad timing where, even if they were approved, it really depended on what time they requested their next tranche of funding. If they requested it in the early part of this year.... Even though publicly ISED said that everything was fine and it was only stopping new projects, those disbursals for legitimate companies that did nothing wrong were also stopped.
This is not just a mismanagement of the truth; it's a mismanagement of actual legitimate companies. In potential cases, ISED itself might have pushed them into bankruptcy, or having to lay people off, because of how ineffective it was in managing the situation.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you very much, Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné.
Mr. Desjarlais, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you again to the witness for being present here today and helping us in our study related to SDTC.
I understand your frustration. I'm frustrated as well with the very real fact that it seems as though the government doesn't take these claims as seriously as you do—or as I do, or as others do—in relation to the serious HR complaints that are present, or were present, within the former SDTC. It's disturbing.
To be very frank, I'm upset to know that the evidence you submitted here today via your testimony regarding racism and anti-2SLGBTQ rhetoric within the department went without support for so long. I know there are many victims of this, and I want them to know that I hear that. I would hope that the government does its best efforts to ensure there's justice for those victims.
I want to move now to the serious issue related to the transition from the former SDTC to the new entity that's being spearheaded by ISED. ISED officials were present at this committee not long ago, and I asked a very poignant question related to the fact that there is an existing list of companies that were found in conflict of interest. My question was, is it responsible for the government to reclaim those funds?
I'll ask you the same question. I know the damage has already been done, but do you believe it's responsible for the government, at the very least, to recoup those costs that were awarded to companies based on conflict of interest?
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
It's imperative, in my mind, that something that's core to the recommendations of this study, and core to the work of trying to rebuild public trust in institutions, is making sure that we get some of this money back. I know that with the committee's support here, we can hopefully entertain such a recommendation later on.
In addition to that, as the new ISED organization will be taking on this work, what recommendations do you have to them for two things: one, direct support for employees, with a better management system for HR, for example, and two, how to reduce this kind of conflict of interest moving forward? What are your recommendations to the new department?
As an Individual
I think the movement into the federal government will be fine on the conflict of interest, because one of the things that didn't exist at SDTC was the channels that exist for federal employees, like—
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
Sorry, it's just because of time.
What you just said is really important. Moving this from an arm's-length agency, established in 2001, that has no accountability.... It is actually better suited to be put into the public service, because the public service, the federal government, has more systems, including a union. Wouldn't you agree?
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
If there were a union in this case, like the Public Service Alliance of Canada, this may have never happened if employees had the option to go to their union. Is that correct?
As an Individual
I know for a fact that none of the problems at SDTC would have happened if these had been public sector employees protected under the union rights that exist.
NDP
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you. That is your time.
Mr. Cooper, you have the floor for five minutes, please. This will be your side's last slot.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
During this so-called cleanup period at SDTC, updated contribution agreements have been completed. You indicated in your testimony that the effect of these contribution agreements is to make retroactively what were previously ineligible or conflicted projects eligible. To be clear, these updated contribution agreements are prepared by ISED. Is that correct?
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
They would have to be signed off on by the minister, Minister Champagne. Is that correct?
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Okay, thank you for that. Astounding.
Turning to COVID relief bonuses and payments, the Auditor General found that the SDTC board improperly approved $38.5 million in so-called COVID relief payments. In addition, the Auditor General found that in blatant conflicts of interest, board members voted to funnel millions of dollars of these payments into their own companies 63 times—63 conflicts of interest. The SDTC board chair, Annette Verschuren, was found guilty of violating the Conflict of Interest Act by the Ethics Commissioner for funnelling nearly $220,000 of these payments into her own company. These payments were approved days before the end of fiscal year 2019-20 and 2020-21. Is that correct?
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Is it correct that board members and executives were incentivized with bonuses if SDTC met certain funding goals in a fiscal year, in other words getting money out the door?
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
I would note that immediately prior to the approval of the so-called COVID relief payments in both fiscal years, SDTC had fallen short of meeting its funding goals. Is it fair to say that this nearly $40-million improper COVID giveaway had an impact on bonuses that board members received?
