Evidence of meeting #142 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sdtc.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Cassie Doyle  Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada

5:10 p.m.

Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada

Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB

Did any companies that your family or friends owned or for which they were members of the board receive SDTC funding?

5:10 p.m.

Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada

Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB

Thank you very much, Ms. Doyle. I do appreciate your answering these questions in earnest. It makes our work much more valuable in this committee.

I'll speak now to a point that you raised, which I was happy to hear. It's your focus on recommendation of the Auditor General 6.29, which largely deals with recovery. This is something that we're aligned with, Ms. Doyle. Something that I'm very passionate about is trying to ensure that, in any instance where there was a conflict of interest or potential mismanagement at the board level that resulted in any funding agreement with potentially ineligible projects, the money be recovered. The Canadian taxpayer should get money back for any illegitimate projects that were deemed acceptable at that time.

There were people who we brought in at one point, members of the project review committee, which, as I'm sure you know, is a function of SDTC. They helped to review some of this information. They claimed at that point—at least the Auditor General in her report suggests—that this quasi-approval board's partial acceptance of 6.29 was the reason some projects were deemed ineligible. This—

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative John Williamson

Ask your question, Mr. Desjarlais, please.

Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB

—is something that I find largely unacceptable. Do you believe that we should recover funds for ineligible projects, as I do?

5:10 p.m.

Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada

Cassie Doyle

I believe that, where we find any evidence of wrongdoing, we will, as a board, take action to recover those funds.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative John Williamson

Thank you very much.

Beginning the second round, Mr. Cooper, you have the floor for five minutes, please.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Doyle, just to clarify an answer you provided to a question posed by Mr. Perkins, the reassessment process that is now under way is taking into account all of the projects that were reviewed during the time period of the Auditor General's report, not just the sample of the Auditor General's. Is that correct?

5:10 p.m.

Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada

Cassie Doyle

That is correct.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB

Okay. Thank you for that clarification.

Can you provide assurance that, once the reassessment process is completed, no companies that were involved in conflicts of interest involving board members will receive a further cent from the taxpayer through SDTC?

5:10 p.m.

Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada

Cassie Doyle

As I mentioned, we are implementing the Auditor General's recommendation, and we're reviewing every single project on an individual basis. If we find any evidence of wrongdoing on the part of the recipient, as the legal agreements exist between SDTC and the recipients, the board will take action on recovery.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB

Will you take action on recovery and bar such companies from receiving further funding?

5:10 p.m.

Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada

Cassie Doyle

Yes. I would imagine that, if there was any finding of wrongdoing, that would disqualify them from future agreements with SDTC.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB

Thank you very much.

You spoke about a reinforced contribution agreement that is now in place. Pursuant to that reinforced contribution agreement, are there any projects that would now be eligible for funding that were ineligible under the previous contribution agreements but had nonetheless been approved by the former corrupt SDTC board?

5:15 p.m.

Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada

Cassie Doyle

That might be the case. The act and the contribution agreement had not kept pace with changes in the technology space that we are focused on in clean tech, so there is a possibility that with the new contribution agreement...and it was recommended by the Auditor General that we clarify language around eligibility. That, I would say, is a possibility—

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB

I apologize for interrupting you, Ms. Doyle, and thank you for that.

I raise it because, when the whistle-blower appeared before this committee two weeks ago, he said that it was more than a possibility. He said that, with respect to the reinforced contribution agreement, it “goes back and retroactively allows for the majority of those ineligible projects to be considered eligible.” It was a majority of ineligible projects.

It seems to me to be concerning that we have $58 million that improperly went out the door, according to the Auditor General, and instead of cleaning up the corruption and mismanagement at SDTC, what is now in fact happening, pursuant to the so-called reinforced contribution agreement, is that the minister, ISED and the board at SDTC are changing the rules retroactively to invalidate mismanagement and corruption.

5:15 p.m.

Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada

Cassie Doyle

Right now the process is under way to assess the eligibility, so I'm not sure how anyone could speak as to the outcome of that process. I can just give you one example.

In the new contribution agreement, we now have much clearer definitions around the technology readiness levels. They hadn't been as clearly defined in the former contribution agreement, and that had posed a challenge around the Auditor General's review of what readiness level a particular project was when it came to its eligibility. In some cases, the language is now much clearer, with clearer definitions of what we mean by the TRLs, technology readiness levels, as they're referred to.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative John Williamson

Thank you.

I'll move on to our next member.

Ms. Yip, you have the floor for five minutes, please.

Jean Yip Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

Thank you.

Thank you for coming on board, Ms. Doyle.

How is SDTC implementing the Auditor General's recommendations?

5:15 p.m.

Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada

Cassie Doyle

There's a lot in the Auditor General's report, as I imagine you all know. We did table an action plan here with this committee in June outlining the intention around the implementation. There has been the implementation of and determination of new processes, such as the quality assurance process related to disbursements. There has been new training of staff, or recent training, and ongoing training of staff around their obligations. When it comes to, for instance, conflict of interest, there's new reporting that is in place. For instance, we at the board are provided with monthly reports of any conflict of interest that has been identified by the staff.

It's reporting. It's new processes in place. It's training. We have, as I mentioned, a new ethics adviser. There's a new way of recording the minutes of the board. The level of implementation is considerable, and 10 of the 11 recommendations of the Auditor General's report have now been implemented.

Jean Yip Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

You mentioned an action plan. How is that progressing? What are some of the actions in the plan?

5:15 p.m.

Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada

Cassie Doyle

We did table the action plan here at this committee in June. As I mentioned, except for the very large recommendation around the reassessment of the eligibility of all the projects during the audit period, all the other recommendations have now been implemented. It speaks to really enhanced diligence, enhanced reporting and strengthened documentation. There are really quite a significant number of improvements that have been made to implement those recommendations.

Jean Yip Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

How do you see the transition into the NRC increasing oversight and accountability at SDTC?

5:20 p.m.

Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada

Cassie Doyle

It will be a different governance structure. The programming of SDTC will form part of the National Research Council, so they will be more in line with a department of government, as opposed to an independent agency, as SDTC is, as a foundation. Therefore, they will be subject to, really, the rules and the financial requirements more along the lines of a line department.