Evidence of meeting #143 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sdtc.
A video is available from Parliament.
Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
—including the projects that were reviewed by the Auditor General, and that is our intent.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
Even if the Auditor General explicitly stated that a given project was ineligible, the consultants reviewing it could decide that it was eligible. The consultants' decisions would supersede the Auditor General's findings.
Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
The Auditor General, in her recommendations, recommended that we undertake separate individual reviews of each of the projects.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
If the Auditor General said that a project was not eligible but the consultants determine that, in their view, it is eligible, who will you listen to?
Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
Once we've followed the process and have reviewed every individual project, the board will take the required action based on the findings of those reviews.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
You didn't answer my question, Ms. Morgan. When it comes to deciding whether a project is eligible, will you go with the decision arrived at by the consultants or the Auditor General of Canada?
Since you're on the board, you are responsible for answering that question.
Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
Once the reviews have been undertaken, the board will take whatever action is appropriate based on the results of the various reviews that have been done. We are being guided by the recommendations of the Auditor General's reviews in the way that we are reviewing each of the projects—
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
You are confirming, one, that SDTC will not take into account the fact that the Auditor General's report explicitly states that certain projects were ineligible, and two, that SDTC could, on the advice of consultants, decide that a project explicitly deemed ineligible by the Auditor General will continue to receive funding.
Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
We're following a clear project that's based on the recommendation of the Auditor General, which was to review every project individually—
Bloc
Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
—and once we have the results of those reviews, we will take whatever action is appropriate.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
The Auditor General's recommendation wasn't to disregard her findings. After all, she did find that many projects were ineligible. Her recommendation was not for you to check on your end whether those same projects were eligible or not. Her recommendation was to check whether all the other projects met the eligibility criteria.
She looked at a sample of projects. I don't think it takes a statistics course to understand that when a sample of a few projects reveals that they don't meet the eligibility criteria, the eligibility of all the other projects has to be checked. You shouldn't be contradicting my assessment or the Auditor General's. It's a real shame.
Let's say a project is found to be ineligible by both the Auditor General and the consultants. Can you confirm that the ineligible projects will continue to receive funding because of the clause stipulating that the contract can't be cancelled?
Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
We've established a very clear process.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
Ms. Morgan, stop saying the same thing over and over again. You are not answering the questions.
Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
In any case where we find evidence of fraud or wrongdoing on the part of the recipient, the board will take appropriate action. That is the purpose of the review.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
Exactly.
The company didn't do anything wrong. It applied for funding. It was told that funding was available, so it submitted an application. The problem is on SDTC's end.
You're telling me, then, that the contracts won't be cancelled because SDTC was responsible for the mistake. You are confirming that the contract is fundamentally flawed. Companies found to be ineligible will continue to receive public money.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Do you have any other comments? You don't.
Thank you.
Next is Mr. Desjarlais.
You have the floor for six minutes, please.
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Ms. Morgan, for being present with us in this committee. As you're aware, the issues at SDTC have large implications in our country. One is the very serious issue of conflict of interest that now Canadians have had to deal with and grapple with. They have to try to understand how an agency as large as SDTC could fall victim to such an audit, fall victim to conflict of interest and fall victim to board mismanagement. These are serious concerns Canadians have that have done incredible damage to public trust.
Being a civil servant for as long as you have been, I'm sure you're aware that if we don't have public trust in our institutions, even our ministries, the work of actually trying to make these policy objectives—which are actually quite good policy objectives, trying to create innovation amongst Canadians, trying to make sure that Canada has a role globally and that we can remain competitive with our technology, our science and our innovation—is all compromised. It's compromised in this really important goal and that policy objective, and of course in terms of Canadian taxpayers' money as well, but also the very real issues related to the climate crisis.
We've done a disservice now to many factors, so that's why we're present here today, and that's why you're present here today, to speak to us about the way you'll be handling the transition from SDTC to the NRC.
On June 4, a press release by Minister Champagne said:
To support this transition process, the Government has named a new SDTC Board Chairperson and two new Directors who will lead the SDTC in the transfer of its programming to the NRC.
You're one of these two board members—is that correct?
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
Can you please describe your role and responsibilities at SDTC and how many hours you put in?
Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
As a board, we are overseeing the governance and leadership of the organization. Our key role is to implement the mandate we were given by the Minister of ISED, which is to implement the Auditor General's report first and foremost, to move forward to restart funding for clean-tech companies in Canada, and also to transfer the people and the programming of SDTC to the NRC. That is our primary function.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
Do you have any specific roles yourself in this process?
Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
We are all sort of jointly accountable as a board, but I have been spending a bit more time on issues related to the transfer to the NRC.
NDP
Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
We are compensated at a daily rate based on a deputy minister's salary. It's about $1,500 a day.