Evidence of meeting #146 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Valerie Bradford Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
It was because of personal privacy concerns, as you stated earlier. Is that correct?
Deputy Secretary to the Cabinet, Senior Personnel and Public Service Renewal, Privy Council Office
It was for all of the key elements: the Access to Information Act, the Privacy Act, solicitor-client privilege and cabinet confidences. Quite frankly, a lot of my career has been spent working on policy committees, under this government and previous governments, and we would have redacted for cabinet confidence purposes. I've seen it all, I guess.
Liberal
Valerie Bradford Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
It wouldn't matter what government was in power at the time. The same rules would apply. Is that right?
Deputy Secretary to the Cabinet, Senior Personnel and Public Service Renewal, Privy Council Office
That's correct.
Liberal
Valerie Bradford Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
All right.
How do PCO appointments deal with flagged conflicts of interest in an application? What do you do with this information, and what weight does it hold in any deliberations or PCO considerations?
Deputy Secretary to the Cabinet, Senior Personnel and Public Service Renewal, Privy Council Office
When we see in an application somebody who may have a conflict, sometimes it's such that it's not going to be possible for the person to proceed. We may just screen them out, quite frankly, if the conflict is seen to be insurmountable. Generally speaking, we have a conversation with the individual over the course of the appointments process.
As I said, it really is a best practice from our perspective for individuals, pre-appointment, to engage with the Ethics Commissioner to make sure that either they will divest so that they have no conflicts, or solid mitigation strategies are put in place to ensure that they won't find themselves in a conflict over the course of their appointment.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you. That is the time, Ms. Bradford, I'm afraid.
We're beginning our third round. Unless I hear otherwise from members, this will be our last full round, with various amounts of time.
Mr. Cooper, you have the floor for five minutes, please.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to go through the steps that led to the appointment by former Liberal minister Bains of Annette Verschuren as chair of SDTC.
Is it correct that, on March 15, 2019, PCO provided a short list of five recommended candidates for chair of SDTC to former Liberal minister Navdeep Bains?
Deputy Secretary to the Cabinet, Senior Personnel and Public Service Renewal, Privy Council Office
That is correct, Mr. Chair.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Ms. Verschuren was not on that list. Is that correct?
Deputy Secretary to the Cabinet, Senior Personnel and Public Service Renewal, Privy Council Office
That is correct, Mr. Chair.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
We know, based on the report of the Ethics Commissioner, that in April 2019, Minister Bains called Ms. Verschuren. Then, on April 30, 2019, a month and a half after PCO had provided Minister Bains with a short list of five recommended candidates, Ms. Verschuren submitted an application. She was interviewed by the selection committee on May 14, 2019. Is that correct?
Deputy Secretary to the Cabinet, Senior Personnel and Public Service Renewal, Privy Council Office
That is correct, Mr. Chair.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Just to confirm, the selection committee comprised representatives from Minister Bains' office, the Prime Minister's Office, the Department of Industry and PCO. Is that correct?
Deputy Secretary to the Cabinet, Senior Personnel and Public Service Renewal, Privy Council Office
That is correct, Mr. Chair.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Okay.
Then, on May 21, 2019, a second letter was sent by the PCO to Minister Bains, adding to the short list of recommended candidates a sixth name, that being Ms. Verschuren. Is that correct?
Deputy Secretary to the Cabinet, Senior Personnel and Public Service Renewal, Privy Council Office
That is correct, Mr. Chair.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
How many candidates did PCO interview between March 15, 2019, when the short list of five recommended candidates was submitted to former minister Bains and when PCO provided the second letter with Ms. Verschuren's name on May 21, 2019?
Deputy Secretary to the Cabinet, Senior Personnel and Public Service Renewal, Privy Council Office
Mr. Chair, maybe I'll just go through a few numbers. For the March 15 letter, there would have been 54 applicants at that time—
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
My time is limited, and I asked a very straightforward question.
I understand that there were 54 candidates who applied in the fall of 2018. Ms. Verschuren wasn't one of them. There was a short list of five. I'm asking how many were interviewed between the letter with the five recommended candidates on March 15 and the second letter on May 21, 2019, when Ms. Verschuren's name was added to the list.
Deputy Secretary to the Cabinet, Senior Personnel and Public Service Renewal, Privy Council Office
I'm sorry. I understand your question. There would have been an additional 47 applicants. Sixteen were short-listed, and three interviews were conducted for the May 21, 2019 letter.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
There were 47 additional applicants between March 15 and then.
Deputy Secretary to the Cabinet, Senior Personnel and Public Service Renewal, Privy Council Office
That's correct.
I'm sorry; that's not correct. Between October of—
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
No, I want to be very clear. I'm asking about the time between March 15, 2019, and May 21, 2019.
Deputy Secretary to the Cabinet, Senior Personnel and Public Service Renewal, Privy Council Office
That's correct. We reviewed applications on—