Public Accounts Committee on Oct. 23rd, 2024

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Okay. That's fine.

Thank you, Mr. Boulerice.

We're turning back to the official opposition.

Mr. McCauley, you have the floor for five minutes, please.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thanks for some of your answers today.

I want to get back to a question that Mr. Perkins, I think, asked earlier. Who directed you to redact these documents? You didn't do it of your own volition. We know very clearly that Parliament has a right to order these documents, so who ordered you to redact these documents?

[Donnalyn McClymont]

I would say that when—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I'm not asking what you would say. It's a straight question, so I'd like a straight answer. Who ordered you to redact these documents?

[Donnalyn McClymont]

When a request comes in, either through the Access to Information Act or a production of papers, central coordination within PCO will send out a request, and we are asked to comply with the request that's been presented, like I said, either under ATIP or production of parliamentary documents, and it would be—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Ms. McClymont, I'm going to interrupt you. This is not under the ATIP act. It's not under the Privacy Act. This is a direct order from Parliament. We have unfettered access to records, as long as those records exist in Canada. That is the law. The law clerk has stated as such. Parliament has ordered it.

Who directed you, or someone else, to redact these documents before sending them back to us? It's not a group decision. It's not something in the ether. I would like the name of the person who directed you to redact those documents, please.

[Donnalyn McClymont]

It's the Access to Information Act that we rely on—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I'm sorry, but I'm going to interrupt you. The Access to Information Act is not a person. It did not all of a sudden become sentient and order you to redact those documents.

What is the name of the person who ordered you to redact the documents to present to committee?

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Just give me one second, Mr. McCauley.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

He is making an assumption that somebody ordered this. The witness is trying to explain how they go through the process, but he won't let the witness finish the answer.

I'm having a hard time understanding. If we want to get to the bottom of the truth, we must let the witness speak. Let the witness speak.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Mr. Drouin, your side will be up in just a few short minutes.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I'm sorry, Mr. Chair, but we have to have an orderly debate. I don't care—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Actually, Mr. Drouin, this is not debate time. This is the—

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Exactly. When a member of Parliament asks a question, we have to let the witness answer, and we're not letting the witness answer. We keep interrupting.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Mr. Drouin, you are wrong about that.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

No, I'm not wrong. I've been here for nine years. This is not how we operate in committees.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Well, you've been wrong for nine years.

This is the member's time—and that applies to your side as well as the opposition—to ask the witnesses, to interrupt them and to refocus the question.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I'm just wondering about this, Mr. Chair. Are we opining on the witness's testimony, or do we want the answer? This is what I'm asking. Do you want the truth, or do you want members—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Well, the truth, that's a—

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

We might as well not have witnesses if they're not able to answer.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Not at all, Mr. Drouin. This is a—

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

At some point, sacrifice—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I'm sorry that you don't like the way the opposition asks questions, but they're entitled to ask them, and if they—

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

They're not asking a question. They're opining. They're asking a question and then they keep interrupting.