No blame was assigned.
Evidence of meeting #147 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.)
A video is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #147 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.)
A video is available from Parliament.
Founder and managing partner, Cycle Capital Management, As an Individual
No blame was assigned.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
No blame.... Well, it was a damning indictment, including $59 million of taxpayer money that improperly went out the door, putting aside issues of conflicts of interest and gross mismanagement while you sat on the board. Do you take responsibility for that?
Founder and managing partner, Cycle Capital Management, As an Individual
I am not solely responsible for that.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
You don't take responsibility for the fact that you sat on the board as 59 million taxpayer dollars improperly went out the door, in non-compliance with the very agreement SDTC had with Industry Canada. You take no responsibility. Is that what you're saying?
Founder and managing partner, Cycle Capital Management, As an Individual
Considering only the list of companies that received COVID‑19 support measures, the 21 files that you attribute to me in which I had no conflict of interest, I think that does illustrate—
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
No, Madam Méthot, with the greatest of respect, I'm not talking about the COVID relief payments only. I'm talking about $59 million—that's beyond just the COVID payments—and tens of millions more that improperly went out the door. I'm just asking you: Do you take responsibility for that as a member of the board?
Founder and managing partner, Cycle Capital Management, As an Individual
Very honestly, I did my best as a board member, as all of the other members did.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
You take no responsibility for the mismanagement. It's telling.
What interest, if any, do you or Cycle Capital have with MineSense biochemistry?
Founder and managing partner, Cycle Capital Management, As an Individual
At the time of the vote? Is that what you are asking?
My personal interest in MineSense is 0.03%. Our participation as investors in MineSense is 8.7%.
Have I answered your question, Mr. Cooper?
Conservative
Founder and managing partner, Cycle Capital Management, As an Individual
No, I'm talking about MineSense Technologies.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
With respect to MineSense biochemistry, what interest do you or Cycle Capital have in that entity?
Founder and managing partner, Cycle Capital Management, As an Individual
I am not familiar with MineSense Biochemistry. I am only familiar with MineSense Technologies.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
I raised it to provide some context, because the Auditor General identified the COVID payments that you had.... Monies were funnelled into certain companies that you had an interest in. You've clarified which of those companies you or Cycle Capital had a specific interest in at the time.
There's another item, number 18 on the list that was provided by the Auditor General, in which she lists you as having some sort of conflict with respect to MineSense biochemistry, in which MineSense biochemistry received $2 million from SDTC.
Founder and managing partner, Cycle Capital Management, As an Individual
Mr. Cooper, let's get something straight right away. MineSense Technologies cannot be MineSense Biochemistry because MineSense uses a data collection technology for the mining sector. The goal is to reduce waste. There is no chemistry involved. It's lasers.
I think it's MineSense Technologies you are talking about. So I will answer for MineSense. I have no problem doing so.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Again, my time is very limited, and I just want clarity as to whether you had an interest, or Cycle Capital had an interest, in MineSense biochemistry at the time that—
Founder and managing partner, Cycle Capital Management, As an Individual
I have no interest in MineSense Biochemistry.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
The answer was that she had no interest in the company.
That is the time.
Founder and managing partner, Cycle Capital Management, As an Individual
It's MineSense Technologies.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you very much.
Your time is up.
Ms. Bradford, you have the floor for five minutes, please.
Liberal
Valerie Bradford Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
Thank you very much, Ms. Méthot, for being with us today.
Before I start my questions, is there anything from that previous round that you want to clarify or expand on? Are there any questions that you didn't have a chance to answer fully?
Founder and managing partner, Cycle Capital Management, As an Individual
Yes, I'd like to help Mr. Cooper a bit. I think the name was simply written wrong. It isn't MineSense Biochemistry, it's MineSense Technologies. I'm not trying to distance myself from the fact that we are an investor in MineSense. As I've already made clear, my interest was 0.04%. That will be in the table you receive.
I also want to point out that our funding comes from 50 investors across Canada and the U.S., and all over North America. We have private investors and institutional investors. We follow processes to obtain those funds. We've even participated in a number of competitions to obtain those funds. All of our investors have a combined stake in MineSense Technologies of 8.7%. I, personally, have a 0.03% stake right now. I really want to make that clear.
Yes, we have a stake in the company. When you own 8.7% of a company, you disclose that you have a conflict of interest, you recuse yourself, and that's always what I did.
I want to be clear, here, Mr. Cooper. I am talking about MineSense Technologies, a Vancouver-based company that uses amazing technology. It's a game changer in the mining sector because it cuts down tremendously on CO2, water and waste. It's a company I hope will make inroads globally. It's taking in millions of dollars in revenue and is helping to position Canada favourably thanks to its green approach to mining.
Liberal
Valerie Bradford Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
Thank you for that clarification.
I want you to confirm something else, in case anyone missed it the first time you mentioned it when my neighbour here asked you the first time.
Could you confirm that Mr. Guilbeault has no stock or stake in the company Cycle Capital?
Founder and managing partner, Cycle Capital Management, As an Individual
I can confirm that Steven Guilbeault has no stock in the company. What he does have—and this is no doubt what Mr. Perkins was referring to in the message he posted on X—is what is known as a passive interest. It's not shares. It's a sort of bonus that is payable only when the return on investment is especially high. It can take 10 years.
To date, Mr. Guilbeault hasn't received a single dollar arising from his passive interest, which is not a share or stock. Mr. Guilbeault is not an investor with Cycle Capital. He doesn't have any shares in any of our funds or programs.
Liberal
Valerie Bradford Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
Thank you for that.
You are a bit of an expert on the clean-tech sector. Would it be correct to say that compared to other small and medium-sized businesses, the clean-tech sector and smaller innovators rely more heavily on public sector funding to help de-risk investments?